One of the issues, which continually surfaces when dealing with the cults, is that of the deity of the Saviour, Jesus Christ. They attempt to deny His deity by twisting Scripture, reading out of context, removing or inserting words and phrases, attributing new or inaccurate meanings to words or by re-translating the Bible. This is claimed to be done in the name of clarification and improved scholarship.

One such group is the Jehovah's Witnesses. In their book, 'Aid to Bible Understanding' (1971, p.918), they have a section on the deity of Jesus Christ. Part of their article addresses the concept of Jesus as the "only-begotten Son." In it, the author makes his position clear by declaring that Jesus is God's "sole direct creation of his Father," with Jesus being "unique, different from all the others of God's sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son." The article then makes a comparison between Jesus being God's "only-begotten Son" in much the same way as "Isaac was Abraham's 'only-begotten son' in a particular sense (his father already having another son but not by his wife Sarah). - Heb. 11:17; Gen. 16:15."

To those with a limited appreciation of the Scriptures, this all seems plausible and logical. For those who decide to take The Watchtower (the organisation of the Jehovah's Witnesses) up on its offer of a free Bible course, they will be shown the booklet, "What does God require of you." When the uninitiated student gets to lesson 3, they find that the Watchtower teaches, "Jesus is the only Son that God created by Himself," (a clear contradiction of John 1:3; Colossians 1:16, 17) referring to Jesus as God's "master worker." Slowly we see a picture emerging of a Saviour who was created, not fully God, restricted in what He can and can't do and who has a limited effectiveness in our lives. One of the expressions that the Watchtower 'dumbs down' or re-translates to support their theological viewpoint is the word 'begotten' or 'only-begotten Son' with reference to the Saviour, Jesus Christ.

The Watchtower teaches that the word 'begotten' or 'only-begotten' means a physical birth or creation; therefore, whilst Jesus is 'god' in a lesser or mighty sense, He isn't God in the greater or Almighty sense (see the Watchtower translation of John 1:1, where Jesus is reduced to a lesser "god").

Their teachings reflect the ideas of Arianism in the fourth century AD, where there was a dispute over the concept of Jesus being 'begotten'. Arianism, like the Watchtower, teaches that Jesus is a second, inferior, 'created first in line' god who stands between the First Cause (God the Father) as the Father's instrument of creation and His creatures. Jesus is not seen as co-equal, co-eternal or in the highest sense God, nor is Jesus consubstantial (of the same essence, nature or substance) with the Father, but as pre-existent, a creature (a 'demi-god' type).

However, is this a fair appreciation of the concept of 'begotten' in terms of Watchtower theology?

If we examine their comparison between the Father ("Jehovah" for the Watchtower, as they don't support the idea of the Trinity) and Jesus with Abraham and Isaac we find that their explanation begins to slowly unravel.

Scientifically: we know that 'like begets like' - Law of Biogenesis. This means that if Jesus were 'a god', then Isaac would have had to have been 'a god'. All members of the Watchtower believe that Jesus was 'a god'; they don't believe that Isaac was one. Conversely, if Isaac wasn't a god, then it follows that Jesus who, according to their reasoning, was equally 'begotten' should also not be a god. Which rule should we follow?

Culturally: this reference to Isaac being begotten of Abraham isn't about physical birth (although this is what happened) but about Abraham's bloodline or descendancy (birth) rights being passed on to Isaac. The Watchtower's own article from "Aid to…" demonstrates this by stating that Isaac became his "only-begotten son" by virtue of the fact that Abraham's other son was "not by his wife Sarah". The word begotten here concerns itself with culture, tradition, clan rights and property - not with creation per se.

The Greek word for '(only) begotten' is 'monogenes'. 'Mono' translates 'single, unique, sole, singular' and speaks of nature, not birth. 'Genes' (genos) translates clan, offspring, house, genus, class, kind, family, progeny, sort, species, direct/collateral descent, tribe, race, stock, kin, and speaks of nature, not source.

In both words, we see that reference is to nature. Jesus was God in nature (homoousios - being of one substance); not to be confused with the Watchtower idea of 'homoiousious' (being of a similar substance; being like the Father in substance only, but not in nature). If we look again at the example of Abraham and Isaac, we see that Isaac became Abraham's 'only-begotten son' through birth. This means that, at some time, Isaac wasn't 'only-begotten' since he wouldn't have been born. Jesus never became because Jesus had always been - Jesus IS. We have only to read of Jesus identifying Himself with the Godhead in John 8:58 where He speaks of Himself as the "I am"; a direct reference to Exodus 3:14, identifying Himself totally with God in substance and nature. Benjamin Warfield, stated in his work "The Person and Work of Christ" (p56) that, "The adjective 'only-begotten' conveys the ideas, not of derivation and subordination, but of uniqueness and consubstantiality: Jesus is all that God is, and He alone is this."

This is reinforced in John 10:30, making it very clear that the Father and the Son are a 'monad' Who have been there from the very beginning, Micah 5:2; John 1:1, 18; 17:5. Jesus has been set up from "everlasting" Proverbs 8:23, with His belief in the total unity and uniformity of Himself and the Father. John Walvoord (Theologian) in his work, "Jesus Christ Our Lord" (p44) stated that, "the thought is clearly that Christ is the Begotten of God in the sense that no other is".

John Calvin said that, "We justly represent him as originating from the father". Institutes, I, xiii, 19.

We have only to look at expressions such as, "Alpha and Omega", "First and Last" and "Beginning and End" to realise that Isaac couldn't be compared with Jesus. It would be like comparing apples and pears; or, more to the point, the Creator with the creature! In terms of the use of the expression 'Son' in "only-begotten Son", we note that, unlike Isaac, this doesn't speak of a second-generation essence, which has been generated in the form of a 'son', since there wasn't a time that Jesus wasn't the Son as the Father had always been the Father. Could this be said of Isaac, or any others for that matter? We become 'sons' through adoption; Isaac became Abraham's 'only-begotten son' through birth and familial inheritance. Jesus had always been so couldn't become. His Sonship was natural (an affirmation of His deity or 'God' nature).

This relationship is referred to as 'anthropomorphic', where the God nature is represented in human terms and characteristics. Charles C Ryrie (Basic Theology) refers to the Orientals and Ancient Semitics who saw in the term 'son' the idea of likeness and sameness of nature and equality of being. James Oliver Buswell in his, "A Systematic Theology of the Christian Religion, 1:105", showed that the Ancients looked upon the use of the word 'son' not in the sense of subordination or inferiority but 'of the order of' - "sons (of the order) of the prophets" (1 Kings 20:35), "sons (of the order) of the singers" (Nehemiah 12:28).

Therefore, when one takes into account the differences between the examples of the Watchtower and their explanation of Jesus as "only-begotten Son" with Isaac as "only-begotten son" and that of the true nature of the eternal God, we can see that there can never be any realistic comparison between the two. The Christian God isn't a demi-god who partially bridged the gap between God and sinner, but God and Saviour Who was able to confidently proclaim in John 19:30, "It is finished" (Gr. 'tetelestai'- paid in full), after speaking to His Father and telling Him in John 17:4 that He (Jesus) had completed His task here for us, His creatures. If He were not fully God, then how was one sacrifice sufficient (Hebrews 10:10-13, 14)? What of our salvation through an imperfect and inferior 'god'?

Jesus never became, but IS. 'IS' in terms of His eternity; His sameness with the Father but as two forms of presentation; His Godness; His identical, indivisible monadic, begotten Deity; both within Each Other as an inherent dwelling as both Brightness and Light, as the Father is to the Son and as the Son is to the Father. Jesus is truly the "only-begotten Son" and true God; both the Son of God and God the Son.

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written by ME , May 09, 2009

I hope you read this but you are clearly wrong here you say Jesus is the sonof God and God the son just think about it it is not possible. How can one being send himslef to earth and yet not be sent. You then say he was imperfect if he was not the real God give me one instance where he was imperfect. And yes He is the sonb of God and it is in a human sense because the bible was insipred of Gid but for us to understand and its people like you who is basically making the Devil's work easier trying to take the glory for Jehovah God. It only took EVE (who was perfect) to create this imprefect situation we are all in so It only takes Jesus another perfect person to pay the price of sin for salvation. Its almost as if you target Jehovah witinesses like you have a grudge against them (don't know if its true but I guess only you would truly know).

Jesus is a god as god is a title or rank like queen and king is. As Jehovah God has allowed Jesus to reign as King in heaven he is like God and has attained the title god. When Jesus took the throne satan and his demons were not permitted to enter heaven whenever they wanted to and were thus cast down to earth. Its like you have stated an oxymoron like he is but isn't but is God. This exact confusion on words and Your'e selected scriptures is what make people either follow blindly without knowledge or through man's fear. or Not wanting to be bothered at all you also state that the son/begotton word is not in our understanding of the word but in a godly sense (basically beyond us) yet you see to have the gift to tell us exactly what it means I guessed your blessed then? I am not a Jehovahs witiness before you slant me on that but get your fact right before you attack people's faith. I could have given you scripture after acripture but I feel you are a person that will try to question this and that forever never coming to a conclusion. I don't have time for that But if you want a true disucussion about the true God Jehovah and not this babylonish faith called the Trinity which by the way isn't mentioned or signified once in the bible as it is man's teaching, then I would be happy to but if its going to be a You say this scripture and I say this one and who ever has the most wins then don't reply I see it as childish and unproductive. (and that ends by post)

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written by John Paul , June 22, 2009

I am not a JW, but I do beleive Jesus is the Son. Colossians 1:15 says he is the image of God and the first born of all creation. It very simpley states that he was the first creation of God. How can you interpret that any other way? Proverbs 8:30 says, "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him." If God is Jesus, how could he be by him? How could he be brought up with him? How could he be his own delight? How could he rejoice before him? Why confuse everyone with a Son if the Son is God? Either he is the Son or God, not both. I think it is very obvious what the Bible means when it comes to the Father and the Son. In Matthew 4:10 Jesus refers to God as someone else other than himself. If you were Sovereign and deserved all the glory and worship, why would you give it to someone else? Well, everyone has their free will which God has given to us all and we interpret the Bible differently. Respectfully yours, JP

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written by RevLyle , July 14, 2009

To quote Robin Williams, If you were right, I would agree with you. JP and ME - Jesus Christ is the Son and he is God. You are going to have some real struggles with scripture if you deny this fact. The noted agnostic, Bart Erhman [let me give you just a glimps of his resume - Ehrman began studying the Bible and its original languages at the Moody Bible Institute and is a 1978 graduate of Wheaton College in Illinois. He received his Ph.D and M.Div. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where he studied under Bruce Metzger. He currently serves as the chairman of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill] understands that Jesus most certainly claimed to be God. So, what I am saying is that here is a man who does not even know that God even exists, but understands through extensive study of the language what Jesus was saying. Jesus claimed to be God.

JP, you must either believe that the Bible is wrong or you must believe that Jesus was a liar if you stand by your belief. In Scripture, what is clear in John 10 is that Jesus claimed to be God. No matter what you know about languages or culture, you can know this. The Jews who lived during the time of Christ DID KNOW the language and they knew the culture and the context of what Jesus said. They were so infuriated with the claims of Jesus they decided to kill him - before they succeeded in the crucifixion. In John 10 Jesus asked them, "I have shwon you many good works from the Father, for which of them are you going to stone me?" Go to the Bible and confirm what I am writing. The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God." You will notice that they were not upset about Jesus making himself a lower god or some god, but that he stated he was Yahweh, Jehovah, or God. That was the only God they believed in. So you are incorrect to say he was the Son, but not God.

Jesus is not just given the title God, He is God. Plain and simple. We see this in the OT and in the NT.

All of your questions [If God is Jesus, how could he be by him? How could he be brought up with him? How could he be his own delight? How could he rejoice before him?] are answered when one understand and accepts the doctrine of the Trinity. Let us not answer questions concerning God with our foolishness, but rather with the wisdom of God in His word.

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written by hsdhdhsd , August 04, 2009

COLOSSIANS 1:15
Let us consider now Jehovah’s Witnesses’ second verse, the New Testament passage at Colossians 1:15, which refers to Jesus. In the NWT it says, “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.” The Witnesses interpret this statement to mean that Jesus was the first thing that God created. This is a good example of how easy it is to misunderstand the key words that are used in the Bible, and Jehovah’s Witnesses are doing just that. The key word in this case is “firstborn.” The Witnesses are assuming that the word “firstborn” is equal to “first created.” The word “firstborn” DOES NOT mean “first created”; they are two different words. There is a Greek word for “firstborn” and there is a Greek word for “first created.” The Apostle Paul, who was writing under inspiration, could have used the word for “first created” if he had wished to do so, but he chose to use the word “firstborn.” (prwtovtoko").
So what does the expression “firstborn” really mean? In Scripture it refers to the first child to be born in the family (see Luke 2:7). There is also another meaning for “firstborn,” namely “primacy,” or “pre-eminence.” The word “primacy” comes from the word “prime,” which means “first.” Please note it doesn’t mean first in time; it means, rather, first in position. For example, in Britain today there is a Prime Minister. Britain’s Prime Minister is not that country’s “First”-ever Minister, but its chief Minister, the one who has the position of primacy over all other ministers in the British Government. That is the sense in which “firstborn” is being used in Colossians 1:15. A good cross reference to use for this is Psalm 89:20, 27. Verse 27 is talking about King David. God says, “I myself shall place him as firstborn, the most high of the kings of the earth.” Notice that God is going to place David as firstborn. Anybody who knows the background of King David knows that he was the eighth son of Jesse (1 Samuel 16:9–13). Yet God says that He is going to make David, the eighth-born, His firstborn. How does He do it? Verse 27 says, “I will make him the most high of the kings of the earth.” David will have the primacy as one over all the kings of the earth. This same use of the word “firstborn” can be applied to Jesus in Colossians 1:15, thus Jesus is not the first created, but the chief over all. He has the position of primacy, or leadership, over all creation.
I think it is worthwhile to include an additional point of information on this passage at Colossians 1:15–16. Please compare it with the NWT given below:

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.”

The New World Translation introduced an extra word into the text, the word “other,” which completely alters the force and meaning of that verse. It allows the Witnesses to claim that Jesus could be created and then He Himself proceed to create “other” things.
Is the word “other” in the Greek text? The answer is emphatically NO! Other translations, however, read, “For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities, all things have been created by Him and for Him.” (NASB) When you look at that verse you will see that Christ is being referred to as the creator of everything; nothing is left out. He created all things, regardless of whether they were things in the heavens or the things on the earth, whether they were visible things or invisible things. If Jesus created each and every one of them, then we have proved that Christ could not have had a beginning. He Himself is not a created thing, but He is author of all creation.
The special Watchtower New Testament known as The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures contains a copy of the Greek text. It’s a good idea to get the Witnesses to show you that translation and then ask them to turn to Colossians 1:16 and look at the Greek text, with the literal English words underneath. Let them see for themselves that the New World Translation committee has added the word “other” to their translation. It is also a good idea to cross reference this verse with John 1:3. So if the Witnesses insist that the word “other” must appear in Colossians 1:16, then that verse contradicts what it says in their own Bible at John 1:3!

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written by hsdhdhsd , August 04, 2009

Prototokos ("Firstborn") The Greek for "firstborn" is prototokos, which means "preeminence" and "eternal preexistence," according to Greek lexicons. It does not mean "first-created." Apart from being untrue linguistically, this heretical interpretation is contradicted in the next two verses, which inform us that Christ "created all things," and that He "is before all things." The Hebrew usage of "firstborn" is also instructive, since it illustrates its meaning as "preeminent." David is called "firstborn" in Ps 89:27, not because he was the literal first child of Jesse (for he was the youngest), but in the sense of his ascendancy to the kingship of Israel. Likewise, Jeremiah 31:9 refers to Ephraim as the firstborn, whereas Manasseh was the first child born (Gen 41:50-52). The nation Israel is called "my firstborn" by God (Ex 4:22). The Jewish rabbinical writers even called God the Father Bekorah Shelolam, meaning "firstborn of all creation," that is, the Creator. This is precisely how St. Paul uses the "firstborn" phraseology in Col 1:15.

"The firstborn"... That is, first begotten; as the Evangelist declares, the only begotten of his Father: hence, St. Chrisostom explains firstborn, not first created, as he was not created at all, but born of his Father before all ages; that is, coeval with the Father and with the Holy Ghost.

The first born of every creature. St. Chrysostom takes notice against the Arians, that the apostle calls Christ the first-begotten, or first-born, not the first created, because he was not created at all. And the sense is, that he was before all creatures, proceeding from all eternity from the Father; though some expound the words of Christ as man, and that he was greater in dignity. See Romans viii. 29. (Witham)

Colossians 1:15-17 - Jesus is called the "first-born of all creation. For in Him were all things created . . . He is before all and by Him all things were created." JWs think this means Jesus is the first created being.

"First-born" here does not refer to time, but to preeminence. It is a title given by a father to his son. Isaac, Jacob and Ephraim received the blessing of the "first-born," though they were not biologically the first sons born to their parents.
The text doesn't say Jesus was created. If so, St. Paul would have said Jesus created all other things, but he did not. Jesus is the Creator of all things. He is God. He is given the title "first-born" as the title of His preeminence and because He is eternally begotten by the Father.

Ask the JWs if they agree that Colossians 1:15-17 means that Christ created everything. They'll say yes. Then show them Isaiah 44:24: "This is what the Lord says, your Redeemer who formed you in the womb: 'I am the Lord, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.'" Ask them why, if Christ created "all things," it says that the Lord God - the Hebrew word used here is Yahweh (Jehovah) - did it by Himself.

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written by Andy , August 07, 2009

Why continue clinging to an illogical doctrine? To promote the trinity creates various problems in other areas of the Bible. For example, Jesus is called "the last Adam". He really had to be a creation in order to fill this role as a perfect sacrifice to replace what Adam threw away. It is non productive to bandy about with words to the endless frustration of all. The Bible should be logical. It was provided to teach us about what came before and what the future holds. You are all descendants of Adam. Not one of you can earn salvation. Yet you spend your time imagining that you are somehow more clever or a better student of the Bible and develop a form of condescending animosity toward those who disagree with you. It is our heart condition that God is interested in. What does this behavior say about YOUR heart condition? Are YOU acceptable to God? Is your focus on developing a fully humble heart or slamming Jehovah's Witnesses? This is the same thing the Jews did. Thinking up clever questions for Jesus, who in turn called them "sons of vipers". The idea of a triune god is not a new one. Take a look at ancient Egypt and their religious practices. Remember, Satan is actively involved in attempting to stumble all of us through pride, arrogance and other weaknesses. When there is doubt, and there most assuredly IS doubt concerning a doctrine like the trinity, remember that the Bible was written to edify those with an acceptable heart condition, not to divide them. To paraphrase King Solomon, he said that the conclusion of the matter, all things having been considered, was to fear the True God and keep his commandments.

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written by hdfsgdsgs , August 12, 2009

Andy:
Do not misunderstand Trinity! The doctrine says: Jesus also fully man. Fully God and fully man in one Christ.
And stop blaming non-Witnesses to be influenced by Satan.

First try to understand what the doctrine of Trinity says, only then try to take argument against it.

Here you get some help:

Athanasian Creed

“…We worship one God in trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being. For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another. But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty. What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit. Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit. The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite. Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit: And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal; as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited. Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit: And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty. Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: And yet there are not three gods, but one God. Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord: And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord. As Christian truth compels us to acknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords. The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten; the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father; the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father and the Son. Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three spirits. And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other; but all three persons are in themselves, coeternal and coequal; and so we must worship the Trinity in unity and the one God in three persons. Whoever wants to be saved should think thus about the Trinity.

It is necessary for eternal salvation that one also faithfully believe that our Lord Jesus Christ became flesh. For this is the true faith that we believe and confess: That our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and man. He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father, and he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother -- existing fully as God, and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body; equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity. Although he is God and man, he is not divided, but is one Christ. He is united because God has taken humanity into himself; he does not transform deity into humanity. He is completely one in the unity of his person, without confusing his natures. For as the rational soul and body are one person, so the one Christ is God and man. He suffered death for our salvation. He descended into hell and rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people shall rise bodily to give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, those who have done evil will enter eternal fire…”

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written by hdfsgdsgs , August 12, 2009

Ant stop being rationalist. Trial of rationalist Bible interpretation is fall. Let the Word lead your mind, rather trying to lead the Word with mind.

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written by hdfsgdsgs , August 12, 2009

IS THE BLESSED TRINITY A PAGAN CONCEPT?
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Trinity: The Christian belief that there are Three Persons in One God. These Three Persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - are distinct from one another yet they share the same Divine Nature. Thus they are not three distinct gods, but one God.
Some detractors claim that the early Christians copied the Blessed Trinity from surrounding pagan religions. Yet as the article The Blessed Trinity: An Explanation shows, the concept came from a careful reading and inspired interpretation of the Bible, which refers to three distinct Persons as "God" yet insists that there is but one God.

An Egyptian "Trinity"?

Before Christianity, no religion ever believed in a single Deity consisting of three persons. Detractors sometimes say that the Osirus-Isis-Horus family of ancient Egyptian mythology was a "model" for the Christian Trinity. Yet this is clearly a triad of distinct pagan deities, not a trinity in the Christian sense. The Egyptians never considered them to be three persons in one God, but as two separate gods and a goddess - among numerous other divinities such as Hathor, Ptah, Neith, Set, Nut, Geb, and Basht, to name a few. The highest deity in their pantheon was the sun god Ra, so they didn't even consider the Osirus-Isis-Horus triad to be supreme among the gods!

Triune Goddess?

Some point to "triple goddesses" worshipped by the pagan Celts as forerunners of the Christian Trinity. Yet these were either triads of mother goddesses or a single goddess with three "aspects" or "modes of being". The Holy Trinity isn't one Divine Person with three "aspects" or "modes", for the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are personally distinct from one another. Thus the "triple goddess" is merely a threefold deity, not a true trinity, thus she could not be the original of the Holy Trinity.

Trimurti = Trinity?

Finally, detractors claim that the Hindu "trimurti" - Brahma, Vishnu and Siva* - was another model for the Christian Trinity. (You can view a picture of the Hindu trimurti at another site ) Yet scholars tell us that this "trimurti" only appears in Hinduism during the fourth century after Christ. Christians had been professing belief in One God in Three Persons for four centuries by then! If the Holy Trinity concept predates the Hindu trimurti, the former could not have been copied from the latter. In fact, given Hinduism's tendancy to absorb concepts from other religions, and the fact that Christianity reached India in the first century, it is quite possible that the Hindu sages developed the trimurti along the lines of the Trinity-concept professed by Indian Christians!
Yet the former is not an exact copy of the latter. Hindus do not consider Brahma, Vishnu and Siva to be three persons in one God, but three distinct gods who each manifest part of Brahman, the impersonal Absolute. Some sages even add a fourth god, Ishvara, to this triad, and claim that he is the first - antecedent to the other three! This demolishes the threeness which seems to parallel the Trinity.
Moreover, Brahma, Vishnu and Siva each have a goddess consort - Sarasvati, Lakshmi and Sakti* respectively. That would make not three but six. Add Ishvara and his consort, Maheshvari, and you now have eight primary manifestations of Brahman! Yet these are only eight among millions of divinities in the Hindu tradition, all of which are considered various manifestations of the Absolute.
Thus any alleged Hindu parallel with the Trinity quickly dissolves into a modalistic polytheism and finally a monistic pantheism, in which all diversity in the universe merely manifests an underlying spiritual Unity (a concept not shared by orthodox Christianity).

Conclusion

So the Christian concept of the Trinity is quite unique to world religions, not copied from another faith but progressively revealed by God in Sacred Scripture. Yet some Christians believe that the various triads and threefold deities mentioned above may have originated in a primitive revelation of - or memory of - the Triunity of the One True God. This is also quite possible. Perhaps the memory traces back to our first parents, who walked with God at the dawn of humanity. Or maybe God revealed something of the Divinity to "righteous pagans", Gentiles of centuries past who sought the Most High God. These memories or revelations seeped into the legends of the human race, and soon became myths of divine triads and deities with three "aspects". For every religion has an element of truth in it; perhaps this is one such element.
Thus we need not be confused by pagan notions bearing a slight resemblance to biblical truth. They may show that God has not left the human race in complete ignorance of Divine Truth throughout the ages.
*Pronounce the "S" in Siva and Sakti as an "sh" in English.

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written by TruthSeeker , August 16, 2009

I am not a Jehovah's Witness, however, I am a Christian; an evangelical at that. And I have come to question the trinity Why? Because of Bible verses, and just straight logic. For those who say we must try to interpret scripture without our minds or logic, are completely irrational and I believe will be lead astray easily. God gave us our minds to understand, and yes we must understand through the spirit, but God also gave us a capacity to think unlike any of His other creations. I have not come to a definitive conclusion, because I do not want to be lead astray by false doctrine, but I think we should question our faith with a sincere heart so that we may PERSONALLY arrive at the truth. As of now I believe God is God, Jesus is Divine (maybe even God), and the Holy Spirit, I am just confused to where He fits, but I know he exists. I would also like to add if it was so important to our salvation why is it not mentioned, only POSSIBLY alluded to, I mean everything else in the Word is fairly spelled out for us to interpret. My question is this? If there can only be one cause then there can be only one God. So if Jesus is begotten, he was caused and therefore cannot be God. Now even if it is an the original language actually means a primacy in inheritance or position Jesus still had to receive it from the Father. Also Jesus says himself that he has to go be with His Father and "His God." Also I know Jesus refers to himself as the I AM, but it can just mean a temporal thing since Jesus was in existence before creation, and therefore would not be bound by time. I don't even know where to start with the Holy Spirit. Hopefully this will cause all to think and maybe some can give some enlightenment on the issue and not the mundane stereotypical answers I have seen thus far. I would be nice to get some input that is truly personal, and not just regurgitated responses. I would also like to mention I have not ruled the trinity out completely either. Anyway. God Bless!

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written by s a , August 17, 2009

The "God" of War: Jesus said: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew, 10:34)
The Sabre-Rattling "God": Jesus said: "And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke, 22:36)
The "GOD" ON THE RUN
"God" Was Panic-Stricken: "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." (John, 7:1)
"God" Walked in Fear of the Jews: "Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews." (John, 11:53-54)
The Powerless "God" (Jesus) said: "I can of mine own self do nothing." (John, 5:30)
"God" Was Ignorant of the Time. Jesus said: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark, 13:32)
"God" Was Ignorant of the Season: "And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry: and seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet." (Mark, 11:12-13)
Racial Discrimination of "God": "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 10:5-6)
According to "God", The Gentiles Are Dogs: "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." (matthew, 15:26)
The Dying "God": "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost." (Mark, 15:37)
Jesus neither SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD, nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. He can, therefore, NEVER be GOD.He is, therefore, definitely NOT God! The onus to prove that Jesus is God now rests with this Christian. Either he must prove that Jesus is God, or he must admit that he is a polytheist, i.e., a believer in more than one God. WITH ALL THE TRICKS AND VERBAL LEGERDEMAIN OF HIS PROFESSION, HE WILL NEVER
BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT JESUS IS GOD!!
He and his fellow-preachers in Christ, will never succeed in convincing the Muslims that Jesus was anything other than a natural man and a prophet of God, sent unto the house of Israel to bear the good news of the coming of the KINGDOM OF GOD, which prophecy was fulfilled with the advent of the Holy Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon both of them)!

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written by Paul , August 21, 2009

There are three that bear record in heaven.

Notice the following few texts:

Ephesians 4:4-6
(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
(5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

These three text show very clearly that there is "one" of each... there is one Spirit, one Lord which we know is Jesus Christ, and one God the Father. Already, without going to 1 John 5:7, a text our opponents claim was added to the canon of scripture, we here confirm that there are three, one of each.

ONE + ONE + ONE = THREE

As with Isaiah 6:3, where the seraphim's cry, "Holy Holy Holy" three times, so here in this text we have mention of y'hovah three times. We are dealing with three separate persons's, each described as y'hovah or holy, yet they are also described as ONE God.


Once again, we find three. But these next verses should make this even clearer:

Numbers 6:24-26
(24) The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
(25) The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
(26) The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

LORD + LORD + LORD = Three

There is a divine God-head therefore; a plurality of elohiym in the scriptures, and these are only three. This is not pantheism, for these three are also one both in essence and in agreement, purpose and truth. Pantheism is a belief in many separate gods who are different either in essence or nature (ex. Hercules) and/or purpose and agreement (ex. Zeus verses Hades).

See: http://adventist-defense-leagu...eived.html

See: Under the section answering JW's from the NWT:
http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/

blessings,
Luke

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written by Paul , August 21, 2009

See:

Under the section answering JW's from the NWT:


http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/


The site touches on the deity of Chrit and uses the NWT to defend.


blessings
Luke

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written by dgasgasg , August 27, 2009

Jesus Christ's Witnesses Claim that Jesus is God
John 1:1 - John writes, "the Word was God." This is clear evidence of Jesus Christ's divinity. (Note: in the Jehovah's bible, the passage was changed to "Word was a god." This is not only an embarrassing attempt to deny the obvious divinity of Christ, but it also violates the first commandment and Isaiah 43:10 because it acknowledges that there is more than one God).

John 1:2-3 - He (the Word) was in the beginning with God and all things were made through Him (the Word who was God).

John 1:14 - the Word (who is God) became flesh (Jesus) and dwelled among us, full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 - the Greek word for "only-begotten" is "monogenes" which means unique, only member of a kind. It does not mean created.

John 1:51 - the angels of God - Matt. 13:41 - Son of Man's angels; 2 Thess. 1:7 - Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His angels.

John 3:5 - Jesus says without baptism one cannot enter into the Kingdom of God - Col. 1:13 - Paul says this is Jesus' Kingdom.

John 6:68-69 - Peter confesses that Jesus is the Son of God who has the words of eternal life.

Acts 2:36 - God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ - Acts 4:24 - Sovereign Lord who made heaven and earth. This means Jesus is God.

Acts 3:15 - Peter said the men of Israel "killed the Author of Life." This can only be God - Acts 14:15 - who made all things.

Acts 20:28 - to care for the Church of God which He obtained with His own blood. This means God shed His blood. When? When He died on the cross. This means Jesus is God.

Rom. 1:1 - Paul is an apostle of the Gospel of God - Rom. 15:19 - Paul preached the Gospel of Christ.

Rom. 7:22 - Paul says he delights in the law of God - Gal. 6:2 - Paul says fulfill the law of Christ.

Rom. 8:9 - Paul refers to both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ.

Rom. 9:5 - Jesus Christ is God over all, blessed forever.

Rom. 11:36 - God for from Him through Him and to Him are all things - Heb. 2:10 - Jesus for whom and by whom are all things.

1 Cor. 15:9 - Paul says he persecuted the Church of God - Matt. 16:18; Rom. 16:16 - it is the Church of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 15:28 - God may be all in all - Colossians 3:11 - Christ is all and in all.

Gal. 1:5 - God the Father to whom be the glory forever - 2 Peter 3:18 - to Jesus Christ be the glory both now and forever.

Phil. 2:6-7 - Jesus was in the form of God, but instead of asserting His equality with God, emptied Himself for us.

Col. 1:15 - Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the "firstborn" of all creation. The Greek word for "first-born" is "prototokos" which means eternal preexistence (it never means created).

Col. 1:26 - God's saints - 1 Thess. 3:13 - at the coming of Jesus Christ with all His saints.

Col. 2:9 - in Jesus Christ the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. He is the whole and entire fullness of the indivisible God in the flesh.

Titus 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of God - Rom. 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of Jesus Christ.

Titus 1:3-4 - God our Savior = Christ our Savior = Jesus Christ is God.

Titus 2:11 - the grace of God that has appeared to save all men - Acts 15:11 - through the grace of Jesus we have salvation.

Titus 2:13 - we await our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Titus 3:4 - 3:6 - great God and Savior Jesus Christ = God our Savior = Jesus Christ our Savior = Jesus is God.

Heb. 1:6 - when God brings His first-born into the world, let all the angels of God worship Him. Only God is worshiped.

Heb. 1:8 - God calls the Son "God." But of the Son He says, "Thy Throne Oh God is forever and ever."

Heb. 1:9 - God calls the Son "God." "Therefore, God, Thy God has anointed Thee."

Heb. 1:10 - God calls the Son "Lord." "And thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning and the heavens are your work."

Heb. 13:12 - Paul says Jesus sanctifies the people with His blood - 1 Thess. 5:23 - the God of peace sanctifies the people.

2 Peter 1:1 - to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:20 - "that we may know Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

Jude 4 - Jude calls Jesus Christ our only Master and Lord. Our only Master and Lord is God Himself.

Rev. 2:8 - the angel of the church in Smyrna wrote, "The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life." See Isa. 44:6.

Rev. 22:6 - the Lord God sends angels - Rev. 22:16 - Jesus sends angels.

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written by dgasgasg , August 27, 2009

Jesus Christ Claims to be God
Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, "you shall not tempt the Lord your God" in reference to Himself.

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, "You heard it said...but I say to you.."

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord." Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath." He is the Lord of God's law which means He is God.

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself "Lord." "The Lord has need of them."

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God "Abba," Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus' unique intimacy with the Father.

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said "tell how much God has done for you." And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, "whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."

John 6:38 - Jesus says, "For I have come down from heaven."

John 8:12 - Jesus says "I am the light of the world." - 1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.

John 8:19 - Jesus says, "if you knew me, you would know my Father also."

John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.

John 8:58 - Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Exodus 3:14 - "I AM" means "Yahweh," which means God.

John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again - Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God."

John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" means the Father and Son are equal.

John 12:45 - Jesus says, "He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." God the Father is equal to God the Son.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, "You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM."

John 14:6 - Jesus says "I am the way, and the truth and the life." Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 16:15 - Jesus says, "all things that the Father has are Mine." Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

John 16:28 - Jesus says that "He came from the Father and has come into the world."

John 17:5,24 - Jesus' desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.

John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying "My Father and your Father."

Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the "Alpha and the Omega." In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the "Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end." The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, "I am the First and the Last." This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.

Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says "I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore." When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, "The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life." When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

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written by MIchael lie , September 01, 2009

It is time that Christians and that includes the Catholic, Orthodox, etc. stop argue about who God is, and who Jesus is and or not is. Salvation is only by faith and believe in one God, the trinity. If we can demonstrate that we do believe in the almighty God, and Jesus his Son. Perhaps, people from other religions will also be attracted to Him. If Christianity is about politics and about who is right and wrong, than the message of God is not being treated the way it should be used. It was not God's intention that there would be so many different churches and that there would be so many differences. Let's pray that the church leaders and those involved in God's Kingdom will set aside differences, and instead demonstrate LOVE. Because God says, without LOVE (agape Love)your acts are useless and meaningless.

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written by John White , September 12, 2009

What bothers me is that I can see both sides of the argument. I'm left to wonder why God would have humans pen the Bible with so many conflicting statements. The truth should be simple, not unnecessarily complicated. Look at all the responses and arguments for and against the Trinity. Is this what God wants? I doubt it. Yet he created this mess by not being crystal clear on this subject matter. Instead, it has resulted in endless arguments that don't lead to love of neigbor, as it results in division and feelings of superiority and pride. So, while we all look to blame the opposer for their erroneous views, why not blame the source, the Bible and it's author for it's lack of clarity. If you are honest with yourself, you can understand why ordinary people with a sincere heart can see the argument for both sides - and that, I believe is the real truth of the matter. Can you imagine your father telling you so many conflicting statements over time about your brother that you couldn't decipher who he really was or where he came from? Of course not!

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written by jon , September 17, 2009

I got a real simple question, I am stuck between fully accepting the Trinity and going with Monotheism or at the minimum a hierarchical Trinity - my questions are...

If he was God, why would he tell the pharisee no one is good except the one who sent me?

If Jesus was fully God on Earth, what would be the point of his death? If he already knew he was going to be resurrected and return to the father, why was he praying to God the night before the passion asking the Father to take the cup from him (more so why would he pray to himself, let alone be scared)?

Also, if he was fully God, why did he tell himself during the crucifixion why have you forsaken me, he forsake himself then?

If anyone can answer these questions, without resorting to some overly complicated, Greek/Roman philosophy of confusing Trinity theory that would be awesome. Thanks and God bless.

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written by Thaddeus , September 19, 2009

I am the author of this article and my e-mail is \n This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it '> This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it . I would be happy to answer any questions sent me.

God bless,

Thaddeus

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written by Luke , October 04, 2009

First and the Only begotten. Are they the same?


http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/2009/10/first-and-only-begotten.html


Luke

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written by knomdphdf , October 12, 2009

"And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? 17 Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19,16-17)

>> Why askest thou me concerning good? In the ordinary Greek copies, why dost thou call me good? (Witham) --- One is good, &c. God alone, by his own nature, is essentially, absolutely, and unchangeably good; at the same time, he is the source of all created goodness, as all goodness is a mere emanation from his. The person here addressing our Saviour, appears not to have believed that Christ was God: wherefore our Saviour, to rectify his misconception, tells him that God alone is good, insinuating thereby, that he should believe him to be God, or cease to address him by the title of good. (Tirinus) --- The sense is, that only God is good necessarily, and by his own nature. The Arians bring this place to shew, that Christ is not truly and properly God: but by this way of speaking, Christ does not deny that he is good, even by his nature, and consequently God; but seems to speak in this manner, to make the man know who he was. (Witham)

"And when he was gone forth into the way, a certain man running up and kneeling before him, asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may receive life everlasting? And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God." (Mark 10,17-1

cool

and
"And a certain ruler asked him, saying: Good master, what shall I do to possess everlasting life? And Jesus said to him: Why dost thou call me good? None is good but God alone. (Luke 18,18-19)

>> "None is good"... Of himself entirely and essentially, but God alone; men may be good also, but only by participation of God's goodness.

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written by knomdphdf , October 12, 2009

Read this:
Dialogue with a Jehovah's Witness on the Deity of Christ and Trinitarianism: Direct Statements of Jesus' Equality With God the Father: Jesus Own Words
- Part one: http://socrates58.blogspot.com...deity.html
- Part Two: http://socrates58.blogspot.com...ty_17.html

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written by ztfzuikopl , October 14, 2009

http://www.godandscience.org/c...reated.pdf Jesus Christ: The First of God’s Creations?

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written by Bong Lee , November 06, 2009

Jesus is same body of God'form but his personal character has starting point. What this mean is that The God father, used his eternal form of body to begotten his son's body. when we say the son is God's form, he is the God in humen's sight. but the son cover his feet with his wings which is God's voice. The Father God along was a throne but when the son did what his Father's will, his Father made him highter than what he used to be. Now that after done what holy father had worked, namely loving menkind, the son became the heir of everything, the throne togather with his father.

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written by hsdhdh , December 12, 2009

Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (NWT: "firstborn of all creation")

The Greek for "firstborn" is prototokos (Strong's word #4416), which means "preeminence" and "eternal preexistence," according to Greek lexicons. It does not mean "first-created." Apart from being untrue linguistically, this heretical interpretation is contradicted in the next two verses, which inform us that Christ "created all things," and that He "is before all things." JWs try to escape that clear indication by adding the qualifying word, "other" -- but (unfortunately for them) "other" is not in the Greek text. The Hebrew usage of "firstborn" is also instructive, since it illustrates its meaning as "preeminent." David is called "firstborn" in Ps 89:27, not because he was the literal first child of Jesse (for he was the youngest), but in the sense of his ascendancy to the kingship of Israel. The Watchtower understands this with regard to that verse:

David, who was the youngest son of Jesses, was called by Jehovah the "first-born," due to Jehovah;s elevation of David to the preminent position in God's chosen nation.
(Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, 584)

Likewise, Jeremiah 31:9 refers to Ephraim as the firstborn, whereas Manasseh was the first child born (Gen 41:50-52). The nation Israel is called "my firstborn" by God (Ex 4:22). The Jewish rabbinical writers even called God the Father Bekorah Shelolam, meaning "firstborn of all creation," that is, the Creator. This is precisely how St. Paul uses the "firstborn" phraseology in Col 1:15. The Greek word for "first-created" is protoktistos. But Paul uses prototokos, which Vine defines as follows:

. . . expressing his priority to, and preeminence over, creation . . . He himself produced creation.
(An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Old Tappan, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1940; under "Firstborn")

And A.T. Robertson states:
The use of this word does not show what Arius argued, that Paul regarded Christ as a creature like "all creation" . . . Paul takes both words to help express the deity of Jesus Christ in his relation to the Father as eikon (Image) and to the universe as prototokos (First-born).
(Word Pictures in the NT, Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1932, vol. 4 of 6, 477-47

cool

Greek scholar Marvin Vincent also concurs:
"First-born" points to eternal preexistence . . . We must carefully avoid any suggestion that Christ was the first of created things, which is contradicted by the following words: "in Him were all things created."
(Word Studies in the NT, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1946; orig. 1887; vol. 3 of 4, 46

cool

If JWs attempt to argue that image (Greek, eikon, Strong's word #1504), "proves" that Jesus is lesser than God, they will again find themselves at odds with all Greek lexicons and dictionaries. For example, W.E. Vine:

Christ is the visible representation and manifestation of God to created beings; the likeness expressed in this manifestation is involved in the essential relations in the Godhead . . . "he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father," John 14:9.
(An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Old Tappan, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1940; under "Image")

The unbiblical JW doctrine of Jesus as "Chief Agent" of all creation (rather than co-creator with the Father and Spirit), is rendered null and void by three verses:

ISAIAH 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I {am} the Lord that maketh all {things}; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; (NWT: "I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?")

MALACHI 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? . . . (NWT: "is it not one God that has created us?")

JOB 9:2,8 . . . how should man be just with God? . . . Which alone spreadeth out the heavens . . . (NWT: "stretching out the heavens by himself")

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written by A. H. III , February 19, 2010

The time will come when all of us little humans will come to see the real truth. Some of us will reject it and some of us will accept it. I'm asking God to open my eye's to the truth so that I don't miss out on all the promises of happiness and glory to come. God bless you all.

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