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Watchers of the Watch
Tower World Part 11
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Enter me: the born and raised Witness. Enter reality: Of all blasphemes, I've begun to have doubts and there is the realization that I shant be a Witness. I envision the disappointment on my parents faces and inevitable shunning, and I see everything I love crumble before me. Who does one tell? Needless to say, I've kept these dark, dirty secrets inside for a long time, letting them grow and fester until I have several nervous breakdowns and become just a shell of my former self. Low and behold, I stumble across a haven for like-minded people, this website and others like it. :sigh: It's lonely when there isn't anyone else. Now that I know that other people in this world think, it becomes a little clearer.
~The one girl who was destined for pioneer school~
Today, for some reason unknown to me I received a mailing from FREEMINDS. I did not ask for, do not want, and I certainly do not need any of your apostate "tickling of the ears."
Detroit, Michigan
Randy,
Thank you for all you do within this website!
Two years ago I started an indepth study of the Beliefs & doctrines that I had been taught in the Watchtower. I had always been afraid to have that freedom. but thru constant prayer and Bible reading I know that the Holy spirit was leading me to make a decision one way or the other. Stay or Leave the Organization. I chose to leave and I wrote my DA letter within 6 months. THEN, the Holy Spirit really began the work with my heart...I accepted Jesus as my Savior and was saved a month after my DA letter, and I was baptised one month after that. My life has really been blessed since leaving the WT. God has been so good to me! I have visisted your website several times and I have read the 2 books by R. Franz. so many differant things helped me in my healing process from this oppressive religion. My Savior is the Great Physician and I am so happy to have a relationship with Him as I never had before as a JW.
thank you for a great website...Keep up the good work!
For those of you inclined to prayer, I request it in behalf of my dad. He is in the hospital for a blood clot in his leg, which is potentially quite dangerous. He cannot move until it is dissolved, if that happens. Otherwise he will need an operation. But these nasty things can slip out and kill you at times, and that is why I am asking. He is almost 80 and in relatively good health for his age otherwise.
If you want to leave him a get-well message, his site is at:
http://www.freeminds.org/family/ken.htm
All you have to do is to leave a message on his Guest Log and I will pass it on!
thank you my dear friends,
Randy Watters
This is a get well greeting from Nova Scotia, Canada for Randy's Dad. Our neighbour had the same thing, he is well now, recovered and it never recurred. I pray the same results for your dear father. May our heavenly father, keep him, watch over him, and heal him.
Rafuse's Nova Scotia. Canada
...and I certainly do not need any of your apostate "tickling of the ears."
Detroit, Michigan
-You could've emailed Mr Watters,you didn't need to sign the guestbook.Just ignore it if you don't like it.After all,when they come to the door we ignore them.
(You naughty,naughty Witness,you.)
Greetings,
I am 46 and I remember reading the "end of the world" in 1975 in the Watchtower material. I went to their meetings, but I was never a member.
I have graduated from a Bible college and I want to tell you that the New World (order) translation lists a westcott and hort in the translators. '
the catholic vatican bible manuscripts were used and westcott and hort, per their own children, were occults and infidels.
a Kittel was also used by the watchtower and he was a nazi party member. I can prove all of this...
of course the NASB (new american standard) and the NIV (new international version) are the basic thing as the NWT. same manuscripts and translators....
the NIV printer also prints another Bible...
the satanic bible by the church of satan....
birds of a feather...flock together...
stick to the old KJV and you will be ok...
http://www.nivexposed.faithweb.com
ChaplainBob@ChristianEmail.com
keep up the good work and Jesus loves you...
I am curious if any of you visitors of this site are aware of any "downsizing" supposedly going on at the WT headquarters in Brooklyn. I've heard rumors from some good sources that, basically, an "amnesty" period was granted for a period of time recently and that any who wanted to leave were told they could--basically an effort to lower headcount and reduce overhead expenses for the WT. This tells me there must be a steep decline in demand for their literature that they produce there and in the overall growth of their numbers.
Dale L.A.
This site has given me much needed info. My wife is a JW and Ive been looking for info supporting my beliefs so I can express them to her. Hopefully this will be enough to make her think twice. Thanks
- Prentiss Carver
Yeah dude,good luck.I've tried to ask questions and use reasoning (always concentrating on keeping calm and maintaining the moral high ground) on some of my loved ones and people I know. Ha. I either got a very 'energetic' repeat of the same dogma or my personal favourite "It's all lies" speech. I stood at the circuit gathering last week and when someone ONCE AGAIN dismissed the child-abuse problem as lies I let out a large sigh.Whoops.You should've seen the heads turn. I'm in it to keep my JW missus and her family happy,anyone else doing anything like that?,I'd be jolly interested to know. (Does Randy Watters actually edit this page?cos people are often long,nasty and bloody preachy.Just wonderin')
to anyone interested: Check out www.factnet.org, I recently did and I was heart sick over the things I read there. About child abuse both physical and sexual by groups like scientoligy and christian scientists among others. I am not an apologist for JW's or mormons but believe me what they are doing makes these people look tame by comparison.
I am not a Jehovah's Witness, but I see a lot of untruths on this site about them. It seems like if you're going to put up a site about them you would atleast take the time to find accurate information concerning them and their beliefs. I know some Jehovah's Witnesses and they are good people just like some are bad, but for the ones doing wrong light will be shed upon those acts. We live in a world of imperfect humans so of course JW's have problems just like you and me. When a person is disfellowshipped it's a loving provision done to protect the rest of the congregation. One bad apple can ruin the bunch. I've never heard of someone being disfellowshipped without there knowledge. If you are sinning what do you expect. It's not like a effort is not made to help those ones. They are disfellowshipped after it is seen that they are not repentant. They usually are repeat offenders or don't have an attitude in harmony with bible standards. A relative of mine was disfellowshipped and she said she looked at it like a blessing becasue it gave her the needed wake up call to get herself together. If you are on this site as a person with bitter feelings towards Jehovah's Witnesses then you are in the right place, but if you want truthful knowledge on the religion I would say get the info from the horses mouth. Meaning dig deeper, go to the meetings, or talk to someone of the faith for yourself. Don't take the word of someone that has been disfellowshipped or that has disassociated themselves because of course their views are going to be negative. My ending comment is basically seek out your own knowledge. Don't be quick to listen to second hand information, find out on your on accord. Anyone can quote a scripture really fast to you, but seek out the understanding and meaning behind those scriptures. Again I'm not a JW or associated with them.
My what a bunch of sexually frustrated people you must be. All this guilt you carry around, just for having perfectly normal, natural thoughts and feelings.
How did all these messed up ideas get into your doctrine and dogma? At some point, there must have been a seriously sexually-repressed individual in charge - perhaps himself a closet homosexual, who was deeply ashamed and disgusted by the natural thoughts in his own head? And this person forced his own self-loathing into your philosophy. Very sad!
What I find hardest to accept, is that people will sell their own minds and souls to the ideas and dogma of other men. And let's be clear here - your whole system is built up by MEN, not God. It is men who have "interpreted" the bible to produce your laws, or in the absence of a clear biblical statement, the same men have indulged their own private insecurities and fears. Each of us is capable of thinking for ourselves - we don't need someone else's opinion to override what we know in our hearts to be honest, decent and true. Certainly, to seek another's opinion is often wise, especially if that person is well-read, experienced, or has a particularly relevant knowledge. But to deny your own worth is utterly foolish and destructive.
Does God enjoy torture? Does God relish in the suffering of humans? I CANNOT believe so. I cannot believe that God would implant all manner of thoughts and desires in us, and then deny us. And NO, it's not a "test". When God created man, did He do a less than perfect job? I think not! I think that we are exactly as we are meant to be. I think we are meant to learn through our own experiences and our own failures. And the only way never to fail, is never to do anything at all. As a fairly normal, sane individual, I have no impulses to commit murder, theft or rape, or even to hurt another human being - regardless of nationality, colour, religious beliefs, politics, economic status, or any other reason. In fact, I have quite strong impulses to help other people, to make new friends and learn new things, to work for a society which is a safe, happy and fun place to live, to give what I can.
But to you, I'm a lost soul. Because I don't submit myself to your dogma. I don't allow someone else to dictate to me how I should act, think or feel. Because, ladies and gentlemen, I masturbate!!! And I enjoy it, and I don't feel guilty about it. And I WON'T feel guilty about it. In fact, I've been a regular practitioner for over 20 years, and never once had a problem. I've never been obsessed by sex (perhaps because I took the pressure off, when necessary), nor have I ever experienced any inclination whatsoever towards homosexuality. I don't view women as sex-objects, and enjoy a very happy and healthy marriage, based on equality and mutual respect. Whatismore, my wife masturbates too. Occasionally we do it together, more often separately as the need arises. It has no detrimental/negative effect on our relationship, sexual or otherwise. Rather, I would say that our sex life is enhanced by masturbation.
So for the love of God, for the sake of the world and everyone in it, stop brain-washing your own people. Stop putting repressive and destructive thoughts and beliefs into your children. Accept the blessings which you have received from on high, and don't question them. Dispute only the rules of men, especially when they seek to hold you from your natural instincts.
And smile.
I'm looking for a copy or a transcript of the 1946 JW Phamplet "Quebec's Burning Hate for God, Christ and Freedom. Mike Viger, froglure@sympatico.ca
To 28 Nov 2002 21:58:00 Why such a lengthy message? Why does is matter to you that some others think you are "lost soul"? If you feel what you are doing is right, and it gives you peace, great! Do we really need to hear about your and your wife's personal habit? Why do you feel the need to put others down who don't agree with you? Could you perhaps be doing the same thing to others that you feel they did/are doing to you by putting them down because you don't agree with their view/beliefs? Should everyone take part in the same actions you take part, because you feel it's the right thing to do? Or should we all make those choices for ourself? If someone doesn't agree with anothers teaching or belief it is their option to step away and do what they wish. We all know what is right (for ourselves) if we stop trying to please others to get their acceptance, and do what our heart and mind feel at peace with.
to:my wife masturbates too
Whats on your mind,whats your point, I really dont know what other people think when they read the guest book. Me personally,I could care less of what you and your spouse are doing in your home.
You state:Does God relish in the suffering of humans? I CANNOT believe so.
Where do you acquire the knowledge to read Gods mind or understand Gods agenda?
You state: But to deny your own worth is utterly foolish and destructive.
What exactly is your worth before God? Your handful of self righteousness?
Dear brother in Christ, We greet you in the glorious name of our Lord and savior Jesus christ. Dear brother I am so glad that I make known about ministry concerning service of God to you.Having the great burden towards the perishing souls we get involved in outreach Gospel. As you know that our country people most of them are idol worshippers and illiterates they are not willing to know that JESUS CHRIST is the Saviour of the world.Even through we are facing many problems and persecutions in all aspects from some powerful groups(You may know Bro.Graham Stains incident)we are going on in doing the Lord`s service in faith. In these bad days our who focus on activities of young people to fell victims and to turn away from the right path.They are gradually attracted by T.V.serials and Internet illegal sites and they are wasting their time.So being forced by Holy Spirit we established a Library by name"HERMON Reading Room".We hope people may avail of this ministry and get some advantage. So dear brother kindly send your free Christian literature/material what ever the material available with you.So that you can support our ministry.Kindly up hold our ministry in your valuable prayers. Your answer will be gratefully received.Involve and support us to fulfill the goals.we expect favorable reply so that the Lord may move the situation here forward. We are praying very much for your ministry. [Our ministries:Evangelism,Sunday Schools,Out reach Gospel ministry,Tracts distribution] Thanking you Your`s in HIM, (K.Prabhu Dayal) [Evangelist]
Contact us:HERMON Reading Room 4-16-200,1,Bharath Pet, GUNTUR - 522 002 [A.P.] INDIA
Dear brother Randy Watters, We greet you in the glorious name of our Lord and savior Jesus christ. Dear brother I am so glad that I make known about ministry concerning service of God to you.Having the great burden towards the perishing souls we get involved in outreach Gospel. As you know that our country people most of them are idol worshippers and illiterates they are not willing to know that JESUS CHRIST is the Saviour of the world.Even through we are facing many problems and persecutions in all aspects from some powerful groups(You may know Bro.Graham Stains incident)we are going on in doing the Lord`s service in faith. In these bad days our who focus on activities of young people to fell victims and to turn away from the right path.They are gradually attracted by T.V.serials and Internet illegal sites and they are wasting their time.So being forced by Holy Spirit we established a Library by name"HERMON Reading Room".We hope people may avail of this ministry and get some advantage. So dear brother kindly send your free Christian literature/material what ever the material available with you.So that you can support our ministry.Kindly up hold our ministry in your valuable prayers. Your answer will be gratefully received.Involve and support us to fulfill the goals.we expect favorable reply so that the Lord may move the situation here forward. We are praying very much for your ministry. [Our ministries:Evangelism,Sunday Schools,Out reach Gospel ministry,Tracts distribution] Thanking you Your`s in HIM, (K.Prabhu Dayal) [Evangelist]
Contact us:HERMON Reading Room 4-16-200,1,Bharath Pet, GUNTUR - 522 002 [A.P.] INDIA
From My wife masturbates too.. Re: "Where do you acquire the knowledge to read Gods mind or understand Gods agenda?"
Obviously you need to learn to read..or THINK..or both. Try again.. Does God relish in the suffering of humans? I CANNOT believe so.
Notice that little word "BELIEVE"??? That means it's my BELIEF that God does not relish in our suffering. And unlike the JW's (and various other denominations), I absolutely DO NOT claim to know God's mind/plans. But I cannot BELIEVE that God relishes in suffering. And that is the point - WHO can truly claim to know God's mind/plans? Yes, I know many try...and all to often end up with egg on their faces...when IS the world due to end? :o)
So to all those trapped in the bondage of a "faith" or religion, which they know in their hearts to be destructive, I try to give my own experiences. Why would they be trapped? Perhaps by their parents' beliefs? Just read some of the older postings...how many had to fight with themselves for YEARS, before they mustered the courage to break free? I admire those people very much. Good luck to them.
Why am I so explicit about my personal life? Because by being open and honest, I try to show that masturbation is perfectly natural and normal. No shame. No disgust. If you remember, my initial point focused on the sexual repression of JW's, so it's not surprising that the rest of my argument dealt with sexual issues.
If you are happy with your life, whether you choose freedom or repression for yourself, then that's fine by me. Your choice! What really shocked me, was the number of people living "double lives" - conforming on the outside (often due to pressure or fear), but suffering inside with what they know in their hearts to be the truth - that they're NOT evil or sordid or worthless, just because they have natural urges.
For my part, I could live my life in happiness without caring..or even giving a second thought..to other human beings and the pain they go through. But I CHOOSE NOT TO TURN MY BACK. I don't force any dogma on anyone - my message is that everyone is capable of thinking for themselves, and making their own choices.
Maybe you need validation for yourself. Maybe you judge your worth by how much you conform to others' thoughts and behaviour. Safety in numbers, right? Fear does such strange things in the mind. But if you choose to submit to your fear, then I respect your right to do that. As I said before, my admiration is with those who take up their personal battles, and fight for the truth.
"What exactly is your worth before God?" Hmmm..what a crass and pathetic way you ask that question. How's your own self-righteousness?
Hmmm..what a crass and pathetic way you ask that question. So what is your answer? What exactly is your worth?
To: 05:19:35
I would like to know what is your value to God? Better yet do you believe you are born in sin, unable to save yourself from this state?
To My wife masturbates... I am finding it hard to follow your line of reasoning. How, by sharing your personal habits does that make them natural and acceptable? If a pedophile is open and honest about his/her sexual preferences/habits does it make those habits natural and acceptable. I am not arguing your right to masturbate or the degree of acceptableness of masturbation. I am questioning your line of reason. What my personal belief on the subject doesn't really matter, as it is subjective. Why must we agree with your view? Are my views less important if they don't agree with yours? It appears to me that you are approaching the matter in the same manner of those you attack.
Concerning the point you made in your first posting. God did indeed create man perfect, however, that perfection was destroyed when Adam and Eve choose to disobey God. Each successive generation has become less perfect. That is why we have genetic mutation and disease. So, is a pedophile’s desire natural, did God create those impulses as well? Something to think about....
To "My wife masturbates" One more point. If parents are not to guide their children by enforcing their beliefs...what is your alternative? My five year old believes it's ok to eat cake for every meal and that it is ok to play in the street...it is my belief that eating cake for every meal is not healthy...and playing in the street is dangerous. My twelve year old thinks there is nothing wrong with doing drugs and not doing his schoolwork...I believe it is detrimental to his future to do drugs and flunk out of school.... My fifteen year old daughter has natural urges to have sex...she believes it's ok to have sex anytime the urge hits her....Wow...I am so wrong....how could I have been so blind...what a terrible parent I have been for forcing my beliefs on my children....Perhaps if I didn't, my five year old would have health problems or get hit by a car. My twelve year old would become a dropout druggie. My fifteen year old will catch a venereal disease and have a child at the age of sixteen... and I can just sit on my butt support them and say it's not my fault I didn't teach them that....I just let them do what they believe...where do you draw the line?
Now, on a serious note. I am being extreme, but my point is valid. Parents have to do what they feel is right in raising their children. If they don't then who's standard should they use. Where will they get the information they need to raise their children properly? Who gets to decide what is proper? I am not saying we as parents are always right or that we sometimes don't damage our children...we do. At least most of us make enough correct decisions to get our children to the age they can make their own choices...we live in an imperfect world...none of us is perfect.
God has given us the great gift of Choice…..He doesn’t force us to do things his way. He gives us the choice…..we have the option to follow or not follow….we have the option to choose how we will follow or not follow and we also must reap the consequences of our choice. That my friend, is why mankind suffers, because with our gift of choice is also the obligation to face the consequence of each choice. So, if God has chosen not to force his views on us, who are you or I to try to put down another persons choice? Only God who is perfect in all ways has that right.
I am not attacking your view...I am supporting your right to have them...to live them...and my right to do the same...and point out the fact that neither of us can escape the responsibility and consequence of making those decisions.
So masturbate until the cows come home with or without your wife...I would prefer if you didn't tell us about it...but then again thats your choice....
Shoul
28 Nov 2002 Time: 21:58:00 Remote User: Comments My what a bunch of sexually frustrated people you must be...
I must say I was outraged at what you wrote.Why do you have to dwell on masturbation so much?is it really so important? I mean,it's not like the 2002 3-day meeting I attended in summer featured a speech warning of the dangers of that particular activity,and doesn't it say in the bible that it....?oh yeah,it doesn't does it? And how dare you complain about religion's being ruled by men?I'll have you know that the Governing Body is under direct influence of God's Holy Spirit.How do we know this?.They told us so of course. One final point before my anger at your free speech and expression of your own beliefs overcomes me.Various people have accused you of trying to impose your views on others,so I feel it's only right to ask you not to go preaching from door to door anymore,to approach us when we are waiting for a bus,or call on the phone...You see,life turned out for your accusers pretty ok BECAUSE they let others enforce their views upon them and they in turn enforce them upon their children.I certainly wish my parents had guided me more with blind faith and then I wouldn't have turned out to be the 16-year old drop-out druggie girl I am,dictating this rant to my helper monkey because I was hit by a car at a young age.
To 28 Nov 2002 Time: 21:58:0028 Nov 2002
The comment above, (mine) was meant to point out that parents have no other alternative but to follow their own judgement. It would be a dictatorship if someone made us all do what they thought was right. If we as parents go the other way we do even more damage by not setting rules. Last I checked JW's don't force anyone to be one of them or stay. I myself studied and stopped no one came to my house and forced me to continue. MY POINT....we all have a right to choose. I can disagree with you but that does not make me right or you wrong. I argue the point that who is he to say he is right,....and the JW's are wrong...by saying they are wrong, he is doing the same thing he says they are...dictating moral standards...
to:ladies and gentlemen, I masturbate!!!
Yeah, whats your point, Heres a confession I picked my nose this morning ;o)
I think this website is exceptional and I am only sorry that persons reading the comments in the guest book cant just understand each other. Jan I think you were brave to tell the truth and if you wanted to return I am sure they would eventually welcome you back. I for my part would not want to rejoin, I nolonger personaly believe in religious organizations in any form. I was a JW for 15 years and part of me is glad of the experiance, Many jws are lovely, honest people who are trying very hard to do what they feel or are told is right and good, and for that I admire ANYONE. I miss my friends but I am happy now despite what the congregations are told I am sure. My view is shared I think by many and that is organized religion is not always the answer. Surely the answer is something like we must be true to ourselves without judgment of others and take care of eachother. Sorry if I sound preachy but I spent along time being judgmental of other people and myself and I don't like it, as I'm sure most exJWs would agree.
Dear Shoul
I agree with you completely. I have no argument with your reasoning. But I would like to make one small point..
When teaching your children the skills they need to survive in life, do you teach them with love and patience? Do you take the time to explain to them WHY they should not eat nothing but cake, take drugs or gratify their sexual urges without thinking? Do you treat them with the respect that every human being deserves, regardless of their age? Do you listen to them?
OR...do you shout and scream at them? Do you tell them how vile and disgusting and filthy they are, and how they should be ashamed of themselves? Do you fill their young minds with doubt and fear? Do you promise them hell and damnation if they don't strictly abide by your rules, without question? Do you make them distrustful of anyone not conforming to the dogma of a particular church?
There is a crucial distinction between these methods of parenting, which I'm sure is obvious. The fruit which one day will ripen, is very much dependent upon the seeds you plant. I pray you are in the first category...or at least do your honest best to be - I am aware of how patience can be stretched by little monsters.~:o)
Reading the comments of ex-JW's, it seemed that too many of them really had to fight to build up their self-confidence, against all odds (eg. total rejection by their families), in order to become free. My whole point from the start, has been to applaud these people, and to encourage others who are currently on this rocky road. The masturbation thing is pretty much irrelevant - it was just one example of the oppression which is forced onto these people to make them feel guilty and dirty and bad about themselves...and thus keeping them "in the fold" by offering salvation. It's mind control - nothing else. There are NO dangers with masturbation (unless it becomes obsessive, of course). The so-called "dangers" proclaimed by the JW's are LIES, specifically designed to create fear in people. I mean..fear of becoming a homosexual..how utterly ridiculous!
However, to finish, I will reiterate my statement that I respect the rights of people to choose their own destinies. I don't say that you should think, act or believe as I do...I DO say that everyone is capable of thinking for themselves, knowing right from wrong, and making their own choices. You don't NEED a church, a society or a dogma to make the rules for you.
And as far as paedophiles go, they break the fundamental rights of other people. They cause pain and suffering by exploitation of others (who have no choice in the matter), and therefore that is wrong. If you choose to cause yourself pain, that's fine by me. If you try to oppress others, that's NOT fine.
And if you choose to spread happiness and love in the world, then you are my personal hero/heroine. God bless you all.
06 Dec 2002 Time: 00:06:10
Exactly.
To 06 Dec 2002 00:06:10
A well put and gracious reply, more so than mine. Peace and God's blessings to you as well my friend.
Shoul
I hope you all have a wonderfull christmas and an even Happier New Year!!!!! Love D
All Intersex and Transgender Jehovah's Witneses , inactive, active, disfellowshipped, or disassociated are welcome to join http://groups.msn.com/TRansgenderJEhovahsWItnesses for information, help, support and healing. This is a board to adress the specific problems and needs for those of us who are IS or TG in the Jehovah's Witness religion.
Visit my webiste JEHOVAH UNMASKED at http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/JEHOVAH_UNMASKED/jehovah_unmasked.htm
Only the fool says in his heart: "There is no god"-The wise says it to the world
to:12:57:23 Fool.
today is the day that would've been my sister's birthday if she hadn't become a jW. i am painfully aware of the day and i am painfully aware of what she has done to our family. how can this be right? to not speak to ANYONE. how is this even remotely religious?
its sad to say randy that you left JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION.IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT BOTHERS YOU WHY YOU CHOSE TO LEAVE THE ORGANIZATION,WHY NOT "LEAVE IT UP TO JEHOVAH"I COULD ONLY TELL ONE THING TAKE AWAY THE PRIDE AND STUBBORNESS IN OYUR HEARTH,YOU KNOW LIFE IS ONLY SHORTH U CAN STILL HAVE TIME TO REPENT IF YOU ONLY TRY.
to 5:11:10 Sounds like typical JW double talk to me, here is a person whos sister will not talk to him because he made a choice that by the grace of"GOD" he was free to make and you think it is right to punish him. you say repent,Question repent for "WHAT?" using the good sense god gave him to leave an "organization" that he can no longer tolerate because of the rules that they place on him? get it straight he did "NOT" leave God you cannot associate leaving an "ORGANIZATION" or "CHURCH" with leaving god. I left my previous church which was lutheran because I did not agree totaly with their view, I now attend a methodist church. In changing churches I did "NOT" leave or turn my back on God nor did the person you are responding to. In my mind there is no "TRUE" church on earth, we are all baptised into Christs universal church and anyone who claims to belong to such a church and be one of the only "TRUE" christians sounds like an egotist to me.
Yep,life is 'shorth' alright.Just think,some of these people have spent most of their lives (which is very likely the one time experience all of us will be allowed to have) wasting it all on the whim's and personal lifestyle preferences of some old men in Brooklyn.Yes,some people have said that 'the world would be better if it were full of JW's'.Fine. And if you ask these when exactly THEIR baptism will be?
To:01:23:53 Well said, In my experience when talking with Jws or mormons, the backbone of their thinking is that if your not of them your not in Gods umbrella of favor. And the real whopper is THEY choose God or have choosen him. And have envoked Gods Holy spirit to dwell in them. But to those Jws that do come across a site like this one, hopefully by seeing the wealth of information exposing this and other cults it will cause a "chink" in their being Gods sole channel thinking.
To the poster saying he changed churches, This is a healthy attitude towards theology. I'm sure the same went on in the apostle Pauls day that the early churches did not line up exactly. But the core beliefs did (Salvation through the cross) etc...
I personally disagree with some end of times teachings of my pastor. That does not mean that Christ is not head of our church.
The Bible is not a organizational book.
Thanks Randy and Gary, I appreciate both of you a lot,I still hurt from being kicked out of the Kingdom Hall,and my parents,brothers and sister,still attack me for being a Ex-Jehovahs Witness.They stoled my childhood,and for that I am still angry.God Bless you both and all other Brothers and Sisters here.
Love Always In Jesus Holy Name,
Buffalo Bill Pike buffalo57069@yahoo.com
to 21:52:06 I am curious What "TERRIBLE" crime did you commit to be thrown out of the kingdom hall? what ever it was is no excuse for your family and so called "FRIENDS" to treat you in this manner. It appears to me (and I may be critizized for saying it)but they seem to obey the "letter" of the law while they violate the "heart" of the law. I have always believed that the heart of the law is mercy, is this their idea of mercy? maybe they ought to read the bible and i do "not" mean the new world translation.
Chuck Brocka
NO CHRISTMAS for the JEHOVAH'S WITNESS!
The Watchtower was exactly right!
Quoting the December 1, 1904, issue we read on page 364:
"Since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate-- 'Christmas day'."
Was Jesus born on December 25th? No one knows. The Judean hills may have been too cold for the flocks in December; it depends on the year. Is it proper to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ on a different day than His actual birth date? The Watchtower read on December 15, 1926, "The event is so important that it is always appropriate to call it to the minds of the people, regardless of the date" (Watchtower--Dec. 15, 1926, p. 371). Similarly, Americans know the date of Lincoln's birthday yet people often celebrate it on a different day. Why? It is the memory that Americans appreciate not the emphasis on an exact date.
Does Scripture forbid celebrating Jesus' birth? Jehovah's Witnesses often remark, "We are to remember Jesus' death not His birth." Consider the Scriptures. Who set the precedent for a proper response to this birth? In Luke 2:8-14, you find it was the inhabitants of Heaven! This fact alone assures us that Jehovah definitely approves of celebrating the birth of Christ. Opposition came but only from the kingdom of Satan. We read, that Jesus' birth is to be characterized by (quote) "the glory of the Lord" and "great joy!" For who? For "all people!" "A multitude of heavenly host" was joyous with celebration and praise! Do you suppose the shepherds stood back and said, "Oh, I just don't see what all of those angels get so excited about!" No, they joined Heaven and celebrated the birth of Jesus Christ! The context commends celebration as the proper response. Scripture does not forbid celebrating the birth of Christ. Jesus was at "the feast of the dedication" in John 10:22. This was not an official celebration day. Yet we do not find that Jesus criticized or refused to participate in the celebration. While we are not specifically commanded to celebrate Jesus' birthday, we are not brought into bondage. God grants freedom in this area.
What about the pagan origins of Christmas? Let's consider the word "December" written on the front of every Watchtower magazine this month. Historically, we know the name is of pagan origin. We ask, is the Watchtower Society a pagan religion for identifying and using the names of the months? Watchtower readers would say, "No. Of course not!" The Jehovah's Witnesses are not recommending the worship of Greek gods by using something common to both cultures. Critics today want to know about the origin Christmas lights. Do Christian people attach pagan meanings to lights or other decorations? No. Of course not! Rather, lights remind God's people about Jesus! Jesus said, "I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life" John 8:12.
What about Hebrew Scriptures referring to ungodly people decorating a tree? Read the context of those Old Testament passages. The person was making an idol to worship. To say that people who enjoy Christmas really worship Christmas trees is simply not honest! Jehovah's Witnesses do not worship the symbol of the Watchtower as it appears on Kingdom Hall's or in their magazines. Neither do Christians worship the cross on a building or a tree in their living rooms. The real problems of Christmas are in the commercialism which steals the focus from the Lord or in the exultation of mythology over reality (Santa Claus versus the Lord). Satan will do everything he can to distract you from celebrating Christ.
Should Christians really be giving Jesus praise? Remember how Jesus commended the children who praised Him, saying the stones would cry out if they stopped (Luke 19:37-40)? When was the last time you heard someone from the Kingdom Hall praise Jesus? If Jesus does not receive worshipful honor equal to the Fathers, your honor of the Father is not acceptable to God (John 5:23). From the very beginning people "worshipped him" speaking of Jesus (Matthew 3:11), not "him and her" (Mary) as in Roman Catholicism. Was Jesus actually worshipped by His disciples, or does the Watchtower Bible accurately suggest otherwise? Test the New World Translation by the Greek. See how the Watchtower translates the following verses, then simply compare the Greek spellings by means of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation. The exact worship that the Father receives is what God's people must give to Jesus Christ. Compare: (Rev. 22:8 with Mark 2:2), (Rev. 5:14 with Mat. 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17), and (Heb. 11:21 with Mark 5:6 and John 9:38). Who is the Christ child born in Bethlehem? Isaiah called Him the "Mighty God" (Isaiah 9:6). Then Isaiah went on to clarify in this context that the "Mighty God" is Jehovah Himself (Isaiah 10:20).
What about gift-giving? Good-will to all men is so commendable! Judge Rutherford, one of the Watchtower presidents, was very excited about his "numerous Christmas presents" (Watchtower--Jan. 15, 1919, p. 31). If gift-giving is acceptable for a Jehovah' s Witness on other days of the year, why not on December 25th? That is logical, isn't it? God's only condition for celebrations is to do so "unto the Lord" (Romans 14:5,6). Do not glorify Satan or any of the works of the flesh listed in Galatians 5:19-21. A Christian Christmas is a stumbling-block when people oppose the message of the birth of Christ, but not for Christians. To the followers of Jesus Christ, Christmas is a stepping-stone for worship! What an opportunity to point people to Christ through our testimonies, gospel tracts, and greeting cards.
What is the best gift? The best gift to give to the Lord is yourself. He wants you! Jehovah offers you the gift of salvation through His Son. "The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23b). Salvation is through the Son; not through an organization. Scripture declares that salvation is a free gift. No one with common sense would reach for a purse to pay for a gift! You simply receive any good gift with gratitude (Rom. 4:4; 11:6; Gal. 3:24). The Watchtower teaches you that salvation is through "Working hard for the reward of eternal life" (Watchtower--April 15, 1972, p. 491). Eternal life is not a reward. Rewards are for those who earn them by the right kind of works. What does God say? Salvation is a free gift! "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9). Salvation is not by faith "and by works." Just believe! Embrace the Lord Jesus Christ to accept God's gift to you! "But as many as received him (Jesus), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" (John 1:12). How do you receive Jesus? "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord (or Jehovah N.W.T.) shall be saved" (Rom. 10:13)! Note that the Lord Jehovah is identified as Jesus in verse 9. The thought is connected by the word "for" in each of the verses. Call upon Jesus today! Trust His sacrifice for sin at Mount Calvary. Believe that He kept His word in raising Himself from the dead (John 2:18-22). Make this December the best ever. You can become a child of God today and enjoy the benefits forever!
Chuck Brocka cbrocka@yahoo.com Feel free to use this or pass it along.
To:Chuck Brocka Amen, good stuff! Even when the Jws do "celebrate" the passover.In essence they really do pass Jesus over. We all, (ex jws) been to the memorials, theres no joy in the air, their all sitting like drones through another boring talk they heard over and over. And fellowship? they get herded out for the next room full of drones. Its very sad, esspecially if you now have experienced what praising and worshiping the Lord in a Christian church really feels like.
So what if christmas is pagan!!! Most things are. We all depend upon history for something and just because it is old does not mean that it has to be all bad. There are loads of religions out there and who's to say christianity is the right one (if there is a right one), we are not going to truely know untill we are dead anyway and even then we might not know. So I HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A GREAT CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEAR pagan or otherwise.
In big trouble.District overseer phoned up and wanted to come around and make sure everything is ok,no pagan stuff going on. Told him I've got a very contagious illness...then I put the phone down and crack open another pint.Merry Christmas all!T
Dear T, let them know! Life may be hard at first, but ever so much simpler.
Thankyou for this site!!!! My sister is a JW and we are worried about her.She is so brain washed into this occult she won't believe anyone it appears.Please pray for my sister.Her name is Judy Tipton.Her address is Judy Tipton,401 west 6th street,Crane,Texas,79731.her e-mail is Judyezek@aol.com.Please help if you can,anyone out there,because this is her soul at stake and her life.I love her and I need help to help her.She's in real deep over her head.She need much prayer to be set free of this occult! Please pray,I beg you,please pray for Judy and her children and her husband David.Thank you for this site,may all Jehovah's witnesses be free from that occult and be saved,in Jesus's holy name,amen.may God bless all of you in his name,amen.Loving him,concerned Sister in New Mexico
True Religion is Jehovah! (or Kingdom Hall) True Church is Mormon! (Jesus Christ of LDS) True Christian is Baptist! (John Baptist) True Freedom is Unitarian! True Politics is Libertarian or Green Party! True Enjoy or crazy love is Catholic!
:)
What is this? It is pathetic material that you display on your web page and full of lies! Lies Lies Lies. Lok at what you are doing! It is sad. Watchers of the world are a fraud!!! 100% False. They are such liars and their stories are made up for the viewers to believe. They are in this for the money. Hipocrytes!
Bloody hell!,is it cuckoo season already?,must be with nutty buggers like this crawling out of the woodwork.
to 06:31:20 Spoken like a true JW, you "cry" out that this website is full of lies but you do not "point" out the lies.
I have noticed the same thing. The Witness people make these accusations but never back any of them up with facts. Never. Another thing that they do is direct people to the Watchtower web site for 'accurate knowledge' of their religion. I think that it would be more accurate to say incomplete knowledge. The Witnesses want members and others only to read what they choose to print and discourage any other input. Give it up you old farts. You don't have the same hold on people you used to have.
I had the same experience at the summer convention.Some old grey suit was on stage doing a rather good Hitler impression."Lies,lies!" he was foaming,and this was in reference to the panorama tv programme which exposed the elder abuse cover-ups.Even life-long drones were looking rather uneasily at each other,and afterwards I heard some heated debating about this topic.But,to my dismay,in a regional letter to all congregations in response to the allegations,the organisation reassured all the the drones that all though 'times were difficult',all the allegations were lies and everything is in good control in Jehovah's hands.All of them swallowed it.And there's me looking around,hoping the bewilderment isn't showing on my face. All for love.I must be nuts.
The Watchtower religion is turning out to be more of a joke as every year goes by. Teachings that run out of time, a bible with no credible translators(they say we must judge it on it's own merit), the Organization being an NGO(non government member of the United Nations), changing doctrine(how many times does a light bulb have to be changed?), and for the 'happiest people on the earth'(yes folks they printed that)they have the most mental problems of any religion.
Please send me free online articles at my emal address: acpaungan@smart.com.ph Thank You
The longer I stay away the more I learn what a load of rubbish I allowed my self to believe for so long.
Thanks for the website....pure genius. Being raised third generation JW, I think I have a valuable opinion on the matter. I'm shocked at the number of still practicing JW's who come to this site to dispute the "apostlates". Isn't that one of the teachings you are choosing to ignore. Second, there where some trully nasty comments made by JW's, telling people that where going to die at arrmageddon. Do you really believe with your attitude, youe going to part of the "great crowd". Lest we forget, Jahova knows the conition of your heart. I"m still amazed at the number of JW"s who go to the Kingdom Hall, sit though every meeting, go out in service, but rather spit on there fellow JW's that they don't like. Before my grandmother died( she was devout), she had a friend at the Kingdom Hall who would sit right in front and tell sister so snd so" I can't stand you". Does she think she will be around to see the earth as a paradise. Everyone has been hurt in there own by JW's( my mother only practiced because my grandmother wouldn't have anything to do with her and we where desitute because my dad{another good Christan} ran around on her), but you real witnessess remember this, there is no bigger sin then bringing reproach on Jehovah's name, right, but you have no problem doind that here. If you are the type of people at the KH these days, I'll never step foot in one again. P.S. Love, Joy, Peace, Goodness, Kindness, Mildnes, self-control, Long-suffering, Faith. I may have forgot some, it has bee a few years.
I know what you mean about nasty comments made by JW's,and their general nasty attitude sometimes.It was after such an occurance that I looked around myself in the hall and thought,"Do I really want to BE in paradise with the rest of THESE people?,listening to this rubbish everyday when I can't stand it for only three times a week!" No. I'm not DF yet,and my 'wordly sister' wants me to do it in a quiet way,but,I'd kinda like to do it with a bang,y'know?
hi found the web address for this site in a chuirch magazine based in ireland i have looked through the site and have thought it is crambed full of anti info about JW i thin they put evenagelical Christians to shame though as they get out and preach rhe Gospel even though it is a stained Gospel. thank you for FREEMINDS i have never been a JW but have watched them with interest to the effort they put into trying to live it
Bri Edwards
Rolf Furuli has a new book out this spring, it is intitle: Assyrian, Babylonian, Egyptian and Persian Chronolgy Compared with the Chronlogy of the Bible. Vol. 1. This book will bury Carl Johnsson's book.
Thank you to the wonderful information on websites like these. I was on the way to becoming a Watchtower victim. Something kept saying to me that the churches cannot be this wrong on everything. I started to do reaserch and came to the conclusion that I was given false and incomplete information from the Jehovah's Witness. A happy person
Thank you to the wonderful information on websites like these. I was on the way to becoming a Watchtower victim. Something kept saying to me that the churches cannot be this wrong on everything. I started to do reaserch and came to the conclusion that I was given false and incomplete information from the Jehovah's Witness. A happy person
Very very Sad!!!!
How dare you do this to Jehovah.
Shameful and disgusting.
I find your website repulsive and dispicable and hope that you will change your ways before it's too late.
Clearly you never belonged in Jehovah's organisation anyway.....
To 08:07:41 So you find this website repulsive do you? Well then what are you doing here? people like you make me laugh.Let me ask a question of you, what is it that you find so offensive? you claim that the owners of this site have never been JW's and just how do you know is it because they say things happaned to them that you have not been witness to in your own kingdom hall? well that doesn't mean it didn't happan to someone else some"where" else. or perhaps you think that disfellowshipping a person and distroying their life is proper. it seems to me that they found the truth you havent the courage to even attempt to find. And if they are lying as you seem to claim they are then show us so called lost sheep where the lies are, Or do you simply "cry" out rather then "point"out like so many others?
Message to the second last post. I hope this clears up your confusion.
Watchtower Organization does not equal Jehovah
Our focus is on those HUMANS that have convinced themselves the represent God. They do not. End of story.
to 20:03:14 Well said you got straight to the point and I applaud you for that.
Yeah dude,drones aren't even ALLOWED to look at these type of pages,so if their local grey hairs find out then they're in for it. (You know,my in-laws tried to convince me to pay Ł20 for a 'reasoning' book cos it's got 'nice paper')
From Stephen.
Why don't you just leave the Watchtower alone??? I was raised a witness and I had a perfectly normal upbringing. I am not a witness anymore but I never criticize Jehovah's Organization. Really, what sort of so called "Christians" are you if you have nothing better to do than to criticize the organization.
From Stephen.
Why don't you just leave the Watchtower alone??? I was raised a witness and I had a perfectly normal upbringing. I am not a witness anymore but I never criticize Jehovah's Organization. Really, what sort of so called "Christians" are you if you have nothing better to do than to criticize the organization.
To 04:30:17 You are right what kind of Christian goes around criticizing Jehovah's spirit guided organization? but then what so called true christian calls all other churches part of satans organization, or bothers people by knocking on their door trying to get them to convert. Maybe your upbringing was normal but not everyones is. The people who rage against the organization are for the most part people who have had their lives ruined and their familys distroyed, by a group that preaches one thing and does another. Was anyone in your kingdom hall ever disfellowshiped and if so for what, did you shun them like you are told, if so did you for one minute think of the damage you were doing? I have no hatered for you or any religious group you may have once been a part of even if they do for me. All I am saying is put yourself in the place of someone who was harmed by this organization, all they are doing is speaking out which is better then acting out.
TO Stephen (January 10, 2003): The blood-guilty, truth-hating, promise-breaking and molester-protecting Watchtower False Prophet Society is most definitely not Jehovah's Organization.
Henry H. Smith
To 9Jan 2003 13.49.27, this is 08.07.41 responding to your posting directed to my posting. What was I doing here? I stumbled across this website accidentally. I didn't claim that the owner of this site were never Jehovah's Witnesses and you're wrong I do notice that each and everyone in the Congregation I attend has their faults and that we are all imperfect. Regarding your comment about lying. I do not read once in my posting that I mentioned this word. May I suggest that you put your glasses on or deal with your conscience which appears to be playing tricks on you. What is it that I find offensive about this site? I find it offensive that people such as yourself are attempting to cause divisions amongst Jehovah's people through your own shortcomings which have been borne out of your own lack of insight, discernment and understanding. And may I suggest to you cease feeding these deficiencies of yours through your jealousy and anger. I still say too SHAME ON ALL OF YOU ARE DOING THIS TO JEHOVAH'S ORGANISATION.......
OOPS IT'S ME AGAIN NOTICED I MADE A COUPLE OF TYPO ERRORS BUT SITE WOULDN'T LET ME CORRECT THEM...
OH WELL...
Dear Watchtower Organization persons
I call you that only because as stated earlier, The Watchtower Organization(a bunch of men in North Eastern United States) do not represent God. Deal with it.
To 10 jan 2003 18:39:13 Okay you stumbled on this site by accident that was the first time, the second was no accident. As for your comments about jealousy and causing division:1 I am not nor could I be jealous of an organization that does not recognize anyone but it's own members as being the only christians worthy of survivng armagedon. 2 The organization cases it's own divisions with thier laws about blood transfusions what ever happaned to freedom of choice. especialy when it comes to the life or death of a child? or shunning. What ever happaned to freedom of speech if something seems wrong or you have a question about it say something. they need no help from any one else to cause divisons, I am not a JW and I'm glad because I belong to a "church" where we are free to use the mind that god gave us to make choices and not have them made for us. I do apologize if I have offended anyone who visits this site or stumbles upon it by accident.
Thankyou for clearing up this misunderstanding. And no the second time wasn't an accident and neither was this one. I felt compelled to return simply because I felt the need to attempt to help these apparently tormented people. Now that you admit you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I advise you to seriously use your energy in finding the right religion so that you can worship the right God. There are thousands of gods but only one right one. What's the name of your church's god? You should ask your church to answer this for you. One of the most amazing things I found in my search for the right God was that most religions do acknowledge that his name is Jehovah. As for blood transfusions the Government who rules where I live forbids me from having freedom of choice when it comes to my child receiving a blood transfusion. I will not agree or consent for one second anyone authorising my child to have a blood transfusion simply because of the risk it involves (however, where I live the government has decided that any child under 18 or their parent doesn't have this choice.) And did you know that it actually takes your body upto 24 hours to process the transfusion and that your body does overtime fighting the invasion of foreign antibodies into the bloodstream following a transfusion. This alone kills a lot of people. Then how do you feel for the many people who contract deadly diseases through blood transfusions. Did you know that there are many bloodborne pathogens and toxins that aren't tested for prior to acceptance for transfusion. I know of 4 people who have had blood transfusions and all of them have said they feel that it is harmed them more than helped them and they all now have serious blood disorders. Selling blood is big business in the world. All Jehovah's witnesses within Jehovah's organisation have freedom of speech and freedom of choice too. They are also people filled with love for their fellow man. I would like to make one more suggestion to you, it is throughout the entire bible instruction on how to find the right religion, I urge you to do this, I did and found it and I have never been happier.
Hey Henry, Question, where do I find the right religion? Please answer. As I am searching. Much Thanks!
TO 06:23:01 (January 11, 2003): First of all, I'm very glad to know that you are being denied the "right" to murder your child. Your "risk it involves" nonsense is Watchtower dishonesty. http://www.cftf.com/online/1997SUMMERp10.html See, also, http://www.cftf.com/online/1998JulSepp01.html & http://www.cftf.com/online/1999JanMarp01.html as well as http://www.jwfiles.com/blood-organ.htm
Another lie you tell is that Witnesses have freedom of speech and freedom of choice. The Watchtower False Prophet Society--which is most definitely not Jehovah's organization--allows neither freedom. Questioning anything uttered by the False Prophet Society is forbidden. Choosing anything not allowed by the False Prophet Society is forbidden. http://www.jwfiles.com/jw-cant.htm
Yet another lie is that Witnesses have love for people. The False Prophet Society has condemned the majority of the human race to death at Armageddon, which never does occur when it's prophesied to occur. Any Witness who questions the False Prophet Society, or breaks any other rule, is subjected to the very cruel and unloveing practice of being disfellowshipped--or automatically "disassociated", which amounts to the same thing--and then shunned, even by close family members.
Who can you possibly think you were fooling?
Henry H. Smith
TO 12:08:28 (January 11, 2003): You won't find it with the Watchtower False Prophet Society. [Deuteronomy 18:20-22; Matthew 7:15-23; 2 Corinthians 11:13-15]
Henry H. Smith
Dear Henry, My risks mentioned were not derived from the Watchtower, they are medical facts.
Anyway Bye Bye I now realise that this site consists of postings not from Ex Jehovah Witnesses but from Atheists.
Have a nice life and I won't be back.
Henry, It is obvious you don't think the right religion is with the JW's. My question was who has it? What do you believe? I am searching for a religion. Do you have one? Do you belive in the Bible or another religious book, or are you against all organized religion?
To-05:58:00 searching,
Understand this simple fact, Religion does not save!
The Jws will have you believe this knid of thinking,if the Org is not right then which religion is?
These Jws that weigh in about blood, holidays,and any other law that God gave,that they(Jw) think they can keep as a Org. Are exactly like the Pharisees.
And Jesus told them that "you search the scriptures because that by them you possess eternal life."
If the Jws truley studied the scriptures, that undeniably they testify of Christ. And as Jesus states "yet you refuse to come to me to have life"
The absolute biggest issue with the Jw is their sin and how they deal with their sinful state?
You will never hear the Jw explain this away. They can not cover their sin. Thats why they get rid of Hell and really dont need Jesus at all. Like the Pharisees they have stumbled right over the Savior.
Keep searching, this site is a good starting point to ruleout the Jws and their Watchtower savior theology.
To the last poster, JW's do not cover their sin we pray for forgiveness through Jesus Christ. We do acknowledge Christ died for our sins and is our redeemer. We just don't believe he is almighty God. We believe he is the head of the organization but is still subject to Jehovah God and does his will. The Bible is full of instances where Jesus Prayed to his father said he was doing his fathers will on earth etc...We know if we sin and do not repent, and ask for forgiveness through Jesus AND avoid commiting the same sin over again then we will not be forgiven. There are many JW's that will be destroyed to include perhaps myself, I don't know if I will stay faithful to the end or even if I am making the grade now, and I don't mean I can earn any reward none of us can, we are all sinners. I believe what does matter is always doing your best to serve Jehovah and worship him to the best of your ability. I know I shouldn't be on this sight but my imperfection leads me to want to dispute some of what is said here. So, from time to time I come here and read what is said and comment. No need to jump on me on that point, but feel free to ask your questions. The fact still remains that although many of you put down my religion you have yet to offer a viable alternative for those of us who want to worship.
To-08:25:43(sins)
If you follow out your Jw theology and make it into your paradise, never having died in this age. When will you pay for your sins from this life, being that the wages of sin is death.
Please show from scripture where does Christ Jesus address the Father as Yahweh.
And why in the new testament is the focus on Christ?
The only way to the father is when the father draws you to the Son.
No where in scripture are we instructed to come the the Org to receive salvation or accept Gods grace.
I encourage you to keep comming to this site. Let the information speak for itself.
Matthew 4:10
Then Jesus said to him, "Go away, Satan! For it is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service".
to 12 Jan 2003 13:53:22
You need to understand and stop and think about the consequences of your words and blaspheming.
It is clear that you dont have understanding of the Bible.
I suggest you take a look at these scriptures:
1 Titus 3:9
But shun foolish questionings and geneologies and strife and fights over the law for they are unprofitable and futile.
1 Timothy 6:4
he is puffed up with [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions,
2 Timothy 2:23 Further, turn down foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fights.
Of course the last post is a cover up because the person is upset with your good questions. Keep up the good work. Jehovah's Witness don't like it when someone else is in the drivers seat.
Jesus Christ A) As true man B) As true God
A) He was born in Bethlehem (Matt. 2:1) B) He said, Before Abraham was, I AM (John 8:58)
A) Was the son of man (Luke 19:10) B) Was the Son of God (John 20:31)
A) Was hungry (Luke 4:2) B) Fed the multitudes (John 6:5 etc.)
A) Said, I thirst (John 19:28) B) Said, If anyone thirst, let him come to me and drink (John 7:37)
A) Was weary (John 4:6) B) Said, Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (Matt. 11:28)
A) Was troubled in spirit (John 13:21) B) Said, Let not your hearts be troubled (John 14:1)
A) Prayed (Luke 22:41-42) B) Answers prayer (Acts 7:59)
A) Lamb (John 1:29) B) Shepherd (John 10:11)
A) Said, The Father is greater than I (John 14:28) B) Made himself equal with God (John 5:18)
A) Did not know the day of final judgement (Mark 13:32) B) Accepted Peter's statement, Lord, you know everything. (John 10:18)
A) Died (John 19:30) B) Raised Himself fro the dead. (John 10:18) Said, I am the resurrection and the life. (John 11:25)
Who can forgive sins but God alone?(Mark 2:7) Christs enemies called Him a blasphemer when He forgave the sins of the paralytic(Mark 2:5) Yet Jesus claimed the authority only God has.(Is.43:25) To prove it He told the paralytic,"Rise... and walk."
what is all that babble so long as you make sense to yourself
To 14:49:23 Re: Matthew 4:10 what bible are you quoating from? Just curious,
my mistake To 14:"59":23 Re: Matthew 4:10 Since there are many translation of the bible which one are you Quoating from?
The most accurate translation
Oh, so you're not using the New World Translation
The NWT is changed to accomodate the Watchtower's false teachings.
The New World Translation is not a translation. This is a COPY of several bibles.
Randy you should do a expose' on the NWT bible and their confidential non-greek knowing grey hairs.
Why is Firpo Carr's rebuttal to Jerry Bergman unavailable at this website? Jerry Bergman's response to Dr. Carr appeared to me like a man treading water. I am curious to know how Dr. Carr responded so I can make a fair judgement on this matter.
Thank You, Connie Durham
To Chuck Broca Can you post all of the Watchtower articles that tell members why celebrating Christmas is a way to honor Christ? I would love to have copies of this.
Hey Randy I have a question. Why when I search through the archives do I find the same repeated boring postings over and over again.
I thought this site was supposed to prove to me that Jehovah's organisation wasn't the way to go. Sorry to disappoint you and your small army of followers but you've all just more than convinced me that I'm definately on the right track.
So Thankyou !!!!!
Well if you believe your on the right track more power to you, but when you start seeing through the lies and false prophecy's remember you were warned. And before you come back with the old excuse we don't call our selves prophets answer this, if the organization really is guided by the spirit god then what they say is told to them by god right? well then if you say god say's this is going to happan at a certain time and year, then you go out and tell people because the organization says it what are you doing? and if it doesn't happan then what does that make them? if you doubt this then go find the back issues of the watch tower and awake magazines that are mentioned on this site and see for your self.
I don't need to go back through the magazines because I'm fully aware of what you are saying, the Watchtower Society has corrected this mistake. Maybe you would do good to correct some of yours.
You'd do best to pray long and hard for yourself because the Bible tells me that you're going to be judged in the same manner you're judging others.
Quite frankly I pity you for your unforgiving nature.
it's good that the organization has corrected this problem, and you are right who am I to judge anyone else the fact is no one but god has the right to pass judgement.I was merely voicing an opinion that being if being a witness makes you happy fine, if it is what you choose fine, your choice of religion means as little to me as mine or anyone elses does to you. the point I was making is make sure you have all the facts. If I have offended anyone I appologize. And yes I will pray for god,s guidence so I do not make the same mistakes again
umm yes well at least you've admitted to your mistakes.
And sorry the religion you follow does bother me if it's not the right one simply because all this division in the world and it's many false religions are being used by Satan for his evil purposes. It's not only my loved ones who are going to suffer the consequences of this it will be all inhabitants of the earth.
and I sincerely hope that you do think twice before you knock Jehovah's organisation again. Keep reminding yourself that this is one sin that you won't be forgiven for.
It never ceases to amazes to amaze me how many of you seem to enjoy trashing an organisation who only ever promotes peace, love and harmony.
If any of you are unable to accept discipline well then so be it but stop trying to find fault with others in an attempt to cover up your own shortcomings.
To:the Watchtower Society has corrected this mistake.
Peter and Paul made mistakes as men,but they never made mistakes in their inspired writings. We never find where they had to go back and correct something that they wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
The Watchtower claims that they write under divine guidance, yet they have made many changes to those writings.
The Watchtower has never admitted to mistakes. The Society just comes out with a "new" statement that makes the previous one obsolete.
Many Witnesses were injured or killed during the sixty years they were allowed to go to war. Many innocent people were killed by the witnesses that went to war. Many witnesses contracted smallpox during the years the Society prohibited vacinations. Witnesses died who could have lived if they had been allowed to have a organ transplant What about all the financial lossses to the witness that sold their businesses and homes so they could spend more time going door to door in these last days of this "old world system"
Do you think these Jws that suffered needlessly should be as forgiven as you say about major doctrinal flip flop at the hands of a few men in Bethel?
oops and yes I acknowledge typo errors in my above posting but still website won't allow me to correct my mistakes.....
I think you need to stop telling lies ....
And maybe if you took yourself off that high and mighty pedestal youve placed yourself upon, just maybe you will be able see things more rationally and clearly and stop being so judgemental and unforgiving.
I have one question for you too?
Since when were you made judge?
Everyone is responsbile for their own actions including you .....
TO 04:44:11, 16:05:14, 18:21:28 & 18:31:31 (January 16, 2003): You admit that you have not bothered to read any of the information presented on this site--and you know full well that this Guest Book is part of this site, not the entire site--yet you say that we lie. And, of course, you make no effort whatsoever to prove your claim that we lie. Typical.
Telling the truth about the Watchtower False Prophet Society--which is most definitely not Jehovah's organization--and the Watchtower religion is no sin of any kind. The blood-guilty, truth-hating, promise-breaking and molester-protecting False Prophet Society--far from promoting peace, love and harmony--has ruined many lives, destroyed many families, and has caused the deaths of a very large number of people.
Henry H. Smith
I have just read the article about JWs being represented at the interfaith effort. I think it is a wonderfull thing when different faiths can put aside their differances and come togeather like that. I myself have attended interfaith services and found great comfort. In fact these services once for the victims of 911, on the one year anniversary of 911, and to pray for peace rather then war with Iraq, were among the most enjoyable I have ever been to. Imagine Jews, islamics and christians all in one place! if only this happaned all the time rather then only durring a time of crisis or tragedy, how much better would this world be? a lot I think. But how can nations live in harmony with each other when most of the time religions can't. If we truly want peace then we must show it and I think a good start would be to stop all this finger pointing and fault finding. Let's send a message to the world, we can start by respecting each others beliefs it's not that hard if we try.
TO 00:44:09 (January 17, 2003): You obviously don't know what the Watchtower False Prophet Society teaches about any sort of interfaith efforts. Check out the second link, http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=44486&site=3
Henry H. Smith
to 08:29:05 Thank you for the tip, I read and was disapointed not to mention saddened that a meeting ment to bring united was used by someone to sew discord instead. I believe we are all gods children and that our beliefs are as diverse as the color of our skin. But despite that difference we all human being underneath, As long as we bicker over religious beliefs the world will never know peace.
To 08:29:05 Thank you for the advice, I read the article and was not shocked or angry but saddened. How could anyone use an event that was ment to promote unity and understanding among gods children to sew discord instead? I believe we are all gods children equal in every way. Our beliefs are as diverse as the color of our skin yet aren't we all humans, don't we all in our own way worship one god?It is indeed a sad day when someone uses their beliefs to belittle his fellow man. Each night I pray that all people in all nations will by gods grace learn to exsist in peace with each other. Guess I must continue but I refuse to let anyone get me down because all things are possible.
Dear Henry,
The lies I'm referring to are the ones where messages have related to my postings where it has been misquoted that I stated something. The proof is in the posting.
And you continue with this charade in your message.
Please point out to me where I said I have not read anything else on this site!
With regards to the link that you've pointed to: I've been taught to check with the Bible when scriptures are quoted, and I sincerely hope that everyone who comes to sites such as this does the same thing. I say this because the scriptures that have been quoted do not relate to the enscription that has been planted beside them deliberately to mislead innocent people. It also appears to me that not only does this site slander Jehovah's organisation constantly but it all constantly questions Jehovah's laws and words.
To 8:29:05 I believe we are all God's children too, it's just unfortunate though that many don't wish to acknowledge him or abide by his laws to ensure that love and peace in this world abound.
TO 08:53:59 & 09:07:52 (January 17, 2003): The teachings against all interfaith affairs come from the Watchtower False Prophet Society, not from one individual.
Henry H. Smith
TO 10:50:39 (January 17, 2003): To begin with, the blood-guilty, truth-hating, promise-breaking and molester-protecting Watchtower False Prophet Society is most definitely not Jehovah's organization.
I read again the entries responding to your entries and I see no misquotes, no lies. Where are they?
As you say, the proof is in the posting. In your entry for 04:44:11 (January 16, 2003), you try to act as if this Guest Book is all there is to this site. In your entry for 16:05:14 (January 16, 2003), you state that you will not look up anything mentioned to you.
And, yet again, you accuse us of lying and, yet again, you make no effort whatsoever to prove your claim. That is so typical.
Henry H. Smith
you know what Henry
you seriously need help to heal you sick and twisted brain.
And a visit to the optometrist probably wouldnt do you any harm either.
And this will be the last posting of yours I reply to because you're ignorance really is over the top.
TO 14:27:04 (January 17, 2003): In other words, you are completely unable to prove anything you say. Typical.
Henry H. Smith
Henry is right. My experience has been a lot of Watchtower supporters defend the Organization by declaring that everything writen was lies. Most often they write "lies, lies, lies". And then comes the statement paraphased 'Your going to get what is coming to you'. Not very convincing.
i just only want to let you know bro. randy that this site and even ray franz site have one thing in common,and that is to critized jehovahs organization,i've been disciplined from the congregation for4 several time but i humbly accept my mistake,so your site randy is fit to call it "free minds"in the sense that you can do what ever you want even its a bad things in the eyes of our almighty god.how many years have u been attacking and critizing the organization so as ray franz?,but as u can see,despite from all your4 propaganda JEHOVAH'S organization continues to grow.let me take this opputunity to encourage all of u here to re-examine your self and humbly accept our mistake,remember jehovah is god of mercy.
I just finshed reading the article about the family who was killed by the father who then killed himself,such a tragedy my prayers go out to the sister and other members of the family who now must try to make sense of this tragedy and move on with their lives. If not for this website I would have been un-aware of this story, thank you for bringing it to my attention.
To 23:42:21 Try as you may, you will not stop this or any other site from providing the information the Watchtower doesn't want others to see. Because of the books and now these web sites, I was shown that the Organization is not related to Jehovah. I was heading down the slippery slope of salvation by works when the truth of Christs free gift was shown to me. The freedom that I see Free Minds is showing is represented in Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Our purpose as Christians is to introduce people to Christ Jesus and let the person begin a personal relationship with Him. Something the Watchtower has no desire to do. They want to introduce the new members to an "Organization". Evil religions that focus on themselves will not disappear(not yet). The Watchtower will exist. But many are joining Christs witnesses now.
So very sad that people continue to misinterpret the Bible for their own reasons and even sadder that others will fall into their snare.
To 17 jan 14:27:04-- Kudos!! You hit the nail on the head in your description of our good friend "Henry". His anti-JW bias, endless debating, and diatribe against the WTBTS has got to be wearisome to anyone that visits this site even occasionally and goes beyond a strong dislike for this organization-- It's more indicative of sick disallusionment. Knock off the dog and pony show, "Henry", and quit blaming the JW religion for everything wrong under the sun. We all know how you feel about the wtbts, but your constant, non-ending, negative, vitriolic, drumbeat of warmongering against the "false prophet society" truly gets old after a while. Do us all a favor and stick to your normal day job and keep this forum open to more diverse points of view.
DALE L.A.
A person wrote: "So very sad that people continue to misinterpret the Bible for their own reasons and even sadder that others will fall into their snare."
Here is your chance writer to support your statement.
1) What is being misinterpreted in the Bible,and by who's authority?
2) You say for their own reasons. What are those reasons you seem to be able to mind read from others thoughts?
3)What is sadder and by who's authority?
4) How are others falling into their snare?
I don't need a chance to support my statement and your ignorance doesn't compel me to respond to your call for argument.
Quite frankly anyone with a brain can understand my message.
Thank you for the non-response. It speaks volumes.
I the Lord(Jehovah) SEARCH the HEART and examine the MIND, to reward a man according to his conduct, ACCORDING TO WHAT HIS DEEDS deserve. (Jeremiah 17:10)
Then all the churches will know that *I am he* who SEARCHES HEARTS and MINDS, and I will repay each of you ACCORDING TO YOUR DEEDS.(Jesus Christ) (Revelation 2:23)
---------------------------------------------------
The Resurrection of Christ Father raised:Acts 3:26, 1 Thess. 1:10 Son raised: John 2:19-21 Holy Spirit raised: Rom. 8:11 God raised Christ: Acts 17:31
TO Dale L.A. (January 19, 2003): What visitors to this Guest Book notice is that you Witnesses never make any effort whatsoever to prove what you say. Far from being interested in "more diverse points of view", you attack us, call us liars and threaten us with death at Armageddon. When you are asked to prove what you say, you respond only with insults--like your good friends 14:27:04 (January 17, 2003) and 17:17:15 (January 19, 2003)--never with any proof.
You are no different. My "diatribes" concerning the blood-guilty, truth-hating, promise-breaking and molester-protecting Watchtower False Prophet Society are always factual. What do you come back with? Only insults, never any facts.
Henry H. Smith
The Governing body has blood on its hands.How do these old creeps sleep at night?
I agree Henry, What Dale fails to realize is that many ex jws and current jws are in total darknesss of the "man behind the curtain" operations of the wtbs. And once a jw takes a peak behind the "curtain" a whole world starts to open up,(their eyes if you will)Hence the term Free Minds. This web site is chink in the wtbs armor.
Ive posted previously about why people have ill feelings towards the society, homes sold, careers put off, lives lost, familys completely distroyed.
If the depths of these atrocities do not effect you, YOU are in darkness.
So be very aware their will always be a constant stream of angry fist shaking at the org.
And yes, Henry will sqaush your ideas that we should all just " suck it up" and not blame the society for the results of a heavy yoke they place on the rank and file.
This website isn't taking a chink out of the Watchtower Society Organisation. You really are kidding yourself if you actually believe this.
Maybe you should liken it more to taking chunks from yourselves because Jehovah will judge you for your blaspheming and slandering against his people.
perhaps this website isn't taking a chunk out of the WTBS but something must be, according to independent polls JWs have one of the lowest growth rates of all major religons in the world or at least in the us. If that is true (polls aren't alway accurate) then what do you atribute this to? As for judging others it apears to me that you are doing the same, when did god decide he needed anyone other then himself to make decisions who would be distroyed? if you are happy with your beliefs then that is fine, if you are angry at the people that post anti-JW sentiment here then I can understand your rage. But do not go condeming people by saying god will judge you harshly because you do not know how he will judge anyone. I believe that he is far more mercifull then you can imagine,would you want to be provin wrong? peace be with you
I was angry when I first stumbled across this site.
Now I just feel pity and sadness. I feel pity for the ones who continuing slander Jehovah's organisation and sadness for the ones who come here whom are mislead by this continual barrage of slander.
And no I'm not judging anyone, I simply read and believe everything the Bible tells me.
And the Bible tells me exactly how we will all be judged. Maybe you should read it and see for yourself.
And yes Jehovah is merciful providing sinners are repentant which is something we all have Jehovah to thank for.
To Above We simply read and believe what's written in the bible. Here is the big truth. THE WATCHTOWER DOES NOT REPRESENT JEHOVAH, JESUS CHRIST or THE HOLY SPIRIT. Feel sorry if you choose, but your feelings do not reflect the truth. Your feelings represent your world view.
Superb eye-opener
Just read the article who pays for child abuse and found it very informative.It is like the catholic church all over again and look what has happaned to them, the boston archdiases had to file for bankruptcy. one thing that amazes me is the two eye witnesses rule, who in their right mind molests a child in front of two others? what was ment in the bible I think was when you confront someone who has wronged you take two witnesse with you to hear his confession "not'two people who witnessed the crime. As for the odd ball idea wait on jehovah wait for what for more children to be molested? Mark 9:52 says:And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin (isn't covering for someone who molested you by not saying anything, because you were told not to, there by alowing that person to do it again to someone else there by causing them harm a sin?)then it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large milstone tied around his neck. It seems clear to me that the elders of the organization are causing these chidren to sin by allowing these pedophiles to continue on instead of telling someone like they should. Wake up people in case you weren't aware of it that behavior falls under the heading aider and abeter, because you are helping him get away with it and you "will" be held accountable. Both by a court judge and later on the "highest judge, stop protecting these scum and do what is right and I do not mean by the laws of man.
correction to above posting that is Mark 9:42
TO 02:41:49 (January 22, 2003): No, you do not believe what the Bible says. In addition to being a false prophet http://www.jwfiles.com/outline.htm the Watchtower False Prophet Society hates truth http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/JWBoastfulLies72.htm publishes a dishonest version of the Bible http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/mislead.htm makes and breaks promises http://www.cftf.com/online/1999JanMarp01.html protects child molesters http://www.exjws.net/sexabuse/index.htm and is so very blood-guilty http://www.ajwrb.org/victims/index.shtml If you truly went by what the Bible says you would not give such an organization the label "Jehovah's organisation".
Henry H. Smith
All the finger pointing, the quoting of verses from a Bible translated by men (whatever the version) that supports your views. I don't believe even one of you reads ancient Hebrew and/or Greek so, unless any of you can, you don't really know what the original writers wrote. Were any of you there when they wrote these things down and asked, "What exactly do you mean by that verse?" If you don't read the original lanuage or weren't there to ask the writer what he ment then you are no better than the person you accuse! Henry you are the worse offender, sure you'll convince someone their religion is wrong by pointing to articles on sites (non verifiable) that are also against the same religion. Who knows who wrote those articles and where they got their info, or even if they made it up! That goes for anyone else against any religion. You don't really know what is going on, neither do I for that matter. So why do you all waste your time trying to convert or destory each others beliefs? Work on yourself and stop all of the hating! All this energy on tearing down. Whoever you all worship I'm sure is very proud of what you are doing here, how you are building up your fellow man. I'm no better, because I had to comment on the uselessness of all this debate, but at least I realize I have no ground to stand on when telling someone what I believe. I think that is where FAITH comes in. Have fun! Even though I've taken the time to write this down, I know it won't change a thing!
The finger pointing is a staple of the Watchtower Organization. Here are some examples:
A) "The so called Christian Churches, they systems, have forsaken the Lord and have joined hands with the Devil and now they seek solace at his hand by communing with evil spirits. These systems are confusing to the people, as their name Babylon indicates." (J.F.Rutherford, Deliverance, 1926,p85)
B) "They are not to assume the attitude or follow the sinful course of Christendom's lucre-loving clergy, who abuse and destroy the "sheep", scatter the flock, and even rob and devour widows' houses to satisfy their lustful and greedy appetites." (The Watchtower 4/15, 1950,p119)
C) "Christendom has been the bosom companion of the rulers of this wicked world." (The Watchtower, 7/1, 1961,p.398)
D) "Outside the true Christian congregation what alternative organization is there? Only Satan's organization..." (Watchtower, 3/1 1970,p24)
There you have it. "ONLY SATAN'S ORGANIZATION"!!! This is only a small sample of the hate the Watchtower organization(which has nothing to do with Jehovah, Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit) has introduced into the lives of Kingdom Hall gatherers. So I don't think that you should put Henry in a class all by himself.
See what I mean? Can't stop can you. I didn't say the watchtower didn't point fingers. Said no religion (to include the watchtower) should point fingers. Don't remember defending any religion.....Yet, you above, went to all that trouble and expended all that energy to point the finger at the watchtower when the JW's are going to continue to believe if they want, if they have faith in their religion, and you will continue to believe your religion regardless of what they post. So, why waste your time? Use all that energy and time to draw closer to your God grow in your faith that is a much better use of your resources. How long did it take you to look that up? How many people do you think you will save from the watchtower with that post, or is your goal a different one?
TO 10:36:40 & 16:40:33 (January 24, 2003): First of all, the Witnesses are not allowed freedom of religion by the Watchtower False Prophet Society http://www.freeminds.org/psych/psych.htm
You claim that you are not defending the Watchtower False Prophet Society, even as you attack factual information about the False Prophet Society, calling it all lies. Where SPECIFICALLY are the lies? The information I presented in my entry for January 23, 2003 is quite verifiable, all you need to do is read and research. That you are very much against reading and doing research, however, can be seen by the way you attacked 16:01:19 (January 24, 2003) for reading and doing research and proving yet another fact about the False Prophet Society. That you are trying to defend the Watchtower cult is also seen by your statement that telling the truth about the False Prophet Society--such as pointing out the fact that they protect child molesters--is an act of hatred.
The one thing you got correct is that attacking us will not stop any of us from telling the truth about the blood-guilty, truth-hating, promise-breaking and molester-protecting Watchtower False Prophet Society.
Henry H. Smith
To 16:40:33 Help me to understand. You have enough interest to write on this forum(that allows free speach), but what is your responce from the giant Watchtower? Do you think they give two hoots about what you think or even one of their members(if they find fault)?
How did I get pulled into your comments? This is 16:40. When did I say anything about the WT having or revoking religious freedom? I lumped them in with the rest of religions and people who attack someone elses religion. I guess I got pulled in because I said your site quotes are from sites that also attack the WT and that the information on them is not verifiable? Oh well...doesn't matter very much to me...your comments show you missed my point entirely.
16:40 again, wow, do you guys even read what I wrote? Once again my comments include the WT. If the shoe fits... To your other comment as to if the WT cares what I think....my point exactly...I think your comment may apply to everyone who posts here....
16:40 One more time...I think. Sorry Henry, I didn't address your comment that I said "factual information about the WT was LIES" Where did I say that?????? I don't see the word Lie in any of my posts....a bit touchy aren't you.....to twist my words so. And where in my post do I show myself to be pro WT?????!!!! My comment about information on web sites includes all sites. Please let me clarifiy my comment, much of the information we find on the internet is very hard to verify without going to alot of time and expanse and very few people if any would go to the trouble. After all if they really feel that strongly they will investigate instead of looking on the internet for their info. How can I find out who Joe Blow is and if what he says happened really happened??? How do you verify the info you point to Henry? Please re-read my post, maybe this time you will get my point and stop using it as a jumping board to support your hate....
More examples of Watchtower hatred:
"Christendom's multidudinous sects and cults have continued to hold sheeplike persons in their parish folds, where they are plundered, exploited, fleeced and devoured for the pleasure and profit of the false shepherds." (The Watchtower 4/15,1950p119)
"To this, the Revelation adds the powerful command: "Get out of her my people." Get out of whom? Out of "Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth"- the world empire of false religion, Catholic, Protestant, and non-Christian, all of which reject Bible truth! (Good News to Make You Happy,1976,p126-127)
Speaking about verification. The Watchtower won't even provide who writes their nonsense in their publications(Watchtower, Awake, books). They won't even provide the names of the so called translators of the New World Translation!!! Talk about the buck stopping nowhere.
16:40 again....Henry I just realized that your entire comment was aimed at me, I was sure you were including someone else, as you said "That you are trying to defend the Watchtower cult is also seen by your statement that telling the truth about the False Prophet Society--such as pointing out the fact that they protect child molesters--is an act of hatred." Your word twisting abilities are beyond belief!!!! To address that comment. If you know someone is a child molester for a fact...you should be using you vast amount of energy attacking the child molesters instead of posting here. I know if I were in your shoes and I knew the TRUTH...I would be helping the victims and doing my best to make sure the molesters etc...were put away....I would not be arguing with someone like me....comments such as mine would be insignificant to protecting a innocent child.....Now twist that....
hey randy i have a question for u, how long have you been doing this things to critize jehovah's organization? 10,11 or more than 15 years,well i have a short story of a brother here in the philippines who become a fierce opposer of the truth,this man after he disassicoted himself in early 80's he soon begun to start and encourage all in the congregation,disfellowshipped one's to join with him,he even established his own church which is close to the kingdom hall,but after more than a decade he soon realize about his mistake and seriously repent about his apostate view, and it was so happy that even though the church that he established still exist untill this days,but whAt a joy to see that many of the brothers who follow him have already back in the congregation including him before he died in 1993, so what is my piont? my piont is that if this man who is a critizer and opposer of jehovahs organization have successfully repent, so also with the rest of you here,remember despite from all the propaganda that ur doing in the organization the vast majority remain faithfull to jehovah and his organization and continue to uphold the christian moral standards, and that thing is so unique among other christian denomination.remember that no other religion have the zeal to share the word of god except the jehovahs's organization & no other religion have a policy to disciplined and remove those who does not uphold the bible standards,as you have known the society does not hesitate to disfellow more than 50,000 a year just to have the congregation remain clean in jehovah's eye. i hope and encourage all of you here to re examine your self again and find what went wrong on your decision. to do this a person must have humility to his/herself.
I just received a visit at the door from the local JWs. Ex-JWs and others who have suffered at the hands of the Watchtower Society, I do believe your story needs to be told in a general venue. I have set up an e-mail list for dialogue on such questions: "Human-nonmoderated.* Our website is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Human-nonmoderated/ Would any of you see fit to join and tell us about your experiences? My personal e-mail address is: intereng@netti.fi if you wish me to add your name to the list (it is also easy to leave). All best wishes, - Paul Harrison
We do not recognize the Watchtower as anything but the governing bodies Organization. So when you say Jehovah's Organization it means nothing to Christians. Here are interesting audio testimonies from those who found the truth in Christ Jesus and his fellowship of believers.
http://www.jwinfoline.com/Page/audio.htm
Listen to the joy these people have found in their life after years of slavery to a human Organization the Watchtower.
still very very sad that weaker souls will be mislead by this gross distortion of Jehovah's word.
Looking at the above sites makes one realise how poisoned your minds have become and now after viewing the content on the above two links I am beginning to understand more.
I'm starting to realise that you all probably do think you are doing the right thing slandering Jehovah's organisation the way you do.
I only ask why????????
You're only hurting yourselves and the people you love.
Jehovah's people will always remain no matter how much poison you spit out.
Truthfully I can't believe the lengths you all go to try and convert others to your twisted interpretations.
My faith has only been strengthened..... And I thank Jehovah and his organisation for giving me the reasoning to see through all these distortions of the truth.
Watchtowers focus on its self vs God
A) "It should be expected tha the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." (1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witness,p85)
B) "Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect." (The Watchtower October 1,1967,p591)
C) "We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." (The Watchtower, October 1,1967,p591)
D) "Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using , we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do". (The Watchtower Dec. 1 1981,p27)
These teachings are not supported by God in his word the Bible. They are only teachings from a Organization directed by men.
All,
Lets stop fighting and look at this:
www.geocities.com/yhwhbible/oslo_chronology.htm
I totally agree why fight, those of you who are still Jws are obviously dealing with confilcting ideas and emotions, otherwise you would not be on this site. So don't block out the information 'worldly' people are offering. If you eventually leave (and you are on the right track) you will be thankfull to sites like this one that show the TRUTH as it really is not as an organization of men say it is. We who have left are free but we probibly would have reacted the same way when we were under the WTS influence.
These days I wouldn't expect there to be too many people at all on this planet, who wouldn't be dealing with conflicting ideas and emotions.
This is Satan's doing, NOT the Watchtower Society.
And I have to say that with so many adverse comments on this topic it is clear that Satan has penetrated Jehovah's organisation just as the Bible says he will.
And THANKYOU to these men as you call them for their unwavering faith and hard work in ensuring that we continue to be guided in the right direction.
And don't be mislead into believing because I'm here that I'm your track and will eventually leave.
I've been down your track and will never return to it.
I prefer living a spiritually clean life with a purpose.
The Watchtower society is neither supported or endorsed by Jehovah, Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit.
yes well Jehovah will be the judge of that in his own time...
I'd be careful if I was you just in case you're wrong.....
Good advice but remember practice what you preach
I plan to watch the fifth estate because it makes me sick how J.W. elders by following watchtower doctorine,about having to have two people who saw the child being molested be there when the molester is acused. Do they really think a person is going to molest a child in front of two others? "STUPID!" Even worse they punish the victim by in a round about way calling them a liar. And they claim that they are good christians? "HA!" To me they are a bunch of pediphile protectors what would they do if it was "their" child it happaned to? the imagine of the church is not worth protecting if even one innocent child must suffer. I guess they learned nothing from watching the news( I assume they did) about the Catholic church they claim is part of Satans organization. How many children must suffer before they pull their faces out of their watchtower and awake magazines and put a stop to it? I wont hold my breath neither should anyone else
I think it's way past time that Randy Watters was held accountable for the hatred and slander that he is encouraging through his website.....
It is downright disgusting.......
Reading the pedophile website I'm now wondering if he's one himself....
Fancing having a website such as that which no doubt would attract these types of people.....
Way past time he looked in his own backyard.....
And I hope before you go to sleep each night that you're thinking about those people who are actually leaving emails and names etc to be traced by pedophiles...
Some of them no doubt are children who don't know any better......
SHAME ON YOU .........
I have a need to add further....
Please remember all and sundry that Satan presents himself as an angel of light....
I've noted Randy's name even leaves a lot to be desired...
I've also noted that he makes a big deal on this molestation site that he can't trace anyone who goes to it....
BEWARE........ this is a downright lie.... He can trace whoever he wants to and also please take note too that he actually encourages people to contact him also......
Then go through the archives and note the message from the two young girls this also leaves a lot to be desired.....
Excellent site. Well done. This site contains valuable information.
SIGN OF AN ABUSIVE & DANGEROUS RELIGION INDIVIDUAL THINKING DISCOURAGED BY WATCHTOWER
A) "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, though such 'Bible reading,'they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago...." (The Watchtower, Aug.15,1981)
B) "We should eat and digest and assimilated what is set before us, without shying away from parts of the food because it may not suit the fancy of our mental taste...We should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification, rather than balk at the first mention of a thought unpalatable to us and proceed to quibble and mouth our criticisms and opinions as though they were worth more than the slave's provision of spiritual food. Theocratic ones will appreciate the Lord's visible organization and not be so foolish as to put against Jehovah's channel their own human reasoning and sentement and personal feelings."(The Watchtower, Feb 1,1952p79-80)
C) "After being nourished to our present spiritual strength and maturity, do we suddenly become smarter than our former provider and forsake the enlightening guidance of the organization that mothers us? 'Forsake not the law of thy mother'(Prov. 6:20-23)" (The Watchtower Feb 1,1952 p80)
These words are manipulative and dangerous. Please be aware of what is happening when a group wants you to not question anything they direct at you.
Randy's words speak for themselves....
He clearly states it himself....
Put your glasses on !!!!!!
What an excellent example of what you become after studying with the Witness organization. Looking at the posts lately should convince any person of the dangers of getting involved with the Watchtower.
To:15:52:55 Explain the two witness rule the Governing Body has in place and how effective this policy is in keeping the Organization "clean".
I only come here to warn innocent ones about this webiste not to address any of your arguments sorry!
For such an evil website you sure do spend a lot of time on it. Please be honest. You are only here to discourage others from seeing the negative side of the Watchtower Organization.
I hardly spend any time at all on this website.
About 1 minute anytime I come here.
Not that I'm here to explain my self to you either I might add.
To: 28 Jan 2003, 20:42:07
No it's not! That's unfair, and totally untrue that all postings are from JW's. Some postings are from decent, honest people who have seen the light - that JW's are the deceivers and the deceived.
Yes, JW's (the paedophile, slandering, fornicating homosexuals) do post here - but they are not the only ones. So please don't judge us all by the same standards.
Dear all,
I am a little concerned at the way my organisation is being treated here. Not to mention that my own name is used in connection with any number of seemingly random accusations. I should like to point out that I am a highly focused individual, who does not waste time on trivialities, due to the fact that my time is somewhat limited, and I have much to achieve before Armageddon.
My purpose in starting the JW cult, was obviously to utilize the most efficient method of gathering the plethora of weaker souls in the world - those mindless enough to believe any old crap, without thinking/reasoning too much - allowing me to concentrate on those that actually use their brains (well, we all need a challenge from time to time). In order to capture as many souls as possible, one cannot afford to waste time and energy. One has to prioritize, rationalize and functionalize, in order to maximize productivity.
Therefore, with regards to taking my name in vain, I beseech you to please cease and desist forthwith. With regards to my methods, I assure you that these techniques have been polished and finely honed over thousands of years, and have proved themselves most robust. I am, however, always available for discussion, and open to new ideas : please come along to your local Kingdom Hall, and I'll be there.
Thank you for your time. I am looking forward to meeting many of you in the near future.
With kindest regards, yours truly,
Satan. :o)
Proverbs 14:6 The ridiculer has sought to find wisdom, and there is none; but to the understanding one knowledge is an easy thing.
Proverbs 13:5 A false word is what the righteous hates, but the wicked ones act shamefully and cause disgrace for themselves.
Proverbs 9:7 He that is correcting the ridiculer is taking to himself dishonour, and he that is giving a reproof to someone wicked - a defect in him.
Proverbs 9:8 Do not reprove a ridiculer, that he may not hate you. Give a reproof to a wise person and he will become still wiser. Impart knowledge to someone righteous and he will increase in learning.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of Jehovah is the start of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Most Holy One is what understanding is.
Proverbs 9:12 If you have become wise, you have become wise in your own behalf, and if you have ridiculed, you will bear it, just you alone.
Proverbs 6:12-15 A good-for-nothing man, a man of hurtfulness, is walking with crookedness of speech, 13 winking with his eye, making signs with his foot, making indications with his fingers. 14 Perverseness is in his heart. He is fabricating something bad all the time. He keeps sending out merely contentions. 15 That is why suddenly there will come his disaster, in an instant he will be broken, and there will be no healing.
To:00:11:38
Shame Russell did heed your scriptural advice.Or Rutherford,Knorr,Franz you get the picture.
I am not ashamed of being a Jehova Witness. I will be one for many years to come, probably the rest of my life. Anyone who thinks that this religion is a cult, needs to give it a second look and stop listen to the "Dumb @$$" who has been talking to you. This site is a total waist of time and I am so sorry i ever came across it. Being born catholic but eventually growing up with Jehova's witness has made me such a better person in everyway. It made me more mature at a younger age. I am never afraid of the "world comming to an end and whatnot" that is just an excuse that people use when they dont want to follow what the bible says and cant find a reason to get out so they can fornicate and cheat on their spouse, and/or seek the worship of other people for themselves... among other things,that i dont have time to mention. If you dont like the religion or any that are in this site why does anyone feel the need to try 'n' take it away from everyone.. in a way this site is like a cult in its self because they are forcing you out of your religion. i know what your thinkin... "no we are not, this is a choice" well guess what so is religion! oh i just noticed that comment that long nasty ones will be deleted... what are you afraid of??????? that people like are right and will mess up your little plan of taking out religion.... read the bible! Any bible .. it will talk about people like you! and for your benefit, give you advice. Lucky you. laterz. < all that and im only 21 =-p >
And now for some love from the Watchtower:
"They [the clergy] have in fact represented the Devil, because it [the Church] is the Devil's organization." (J.F.Rutherford, Life, 1929 p292)
"They are not to assume the attitude or follow the sinful course of Christendom's lucre-loving clergy, who abuse and destroy the "sheep", scatter the flock, and even rob and devour widows' houses to satisfy their lustful and greedy appetites." (The Watchtower 4/15 1950p121)
"Christendom has been the bosom companion of the rulers of this wicked world." (The Watchower 7/1, 1961 p235-236)
"Spiritually speaking, Christendom is a "harlot," for she has intimate friendship with this wicked world...Can there be any question that Christendom is a part of Babylon the Great, with a church membership that makes her the dominant part of the world empire of false religion? None!" (Man's Salvation Out of World Distress at Hand!,1975 p235-236)
I have personaly known Jehovah's Witness. With this type of hate printed in literature they read, it is not hard to understand why they act the way they do.
I've noted that you've done this a few times postee above.
Coming back with quotes from Watchtower magazines in an attempt to justify your own inscription at the bottom.
Being aware and cautious isn't hatred.
You'd do best to deal with your hatred and paranoia and than maybe you will find some understanding.
You write with the same tone as your Watchtower writers.
That's funny. The Watchtower can write anything they want and it is caution. But anyone else that writes anything about the Watchtower is proud, evil, rebellious. Not really. Just what the Watchtower ordered? By the way. Are you counting your cyberwitnessing time for your monthly report?
oh well, sorry can't help you any further.
You too blinded by your own ignorance.
Pride of men (Watchtower leaders)
THE WATCHTOWER ORGAINIZATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE.
A) "Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book". (The Watchtower July 1,1973 p402)
B) "We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the 'faithful and discreet slave' organization." (The Watchtower Feb 15, 1981)
C) "...people cannot see the Divine Plan in studying the Bible by itself...if he then lays them (Scripture Studies) aside and ignores them and goes to the bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our expreience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures." (The Watchtower Sept 15, 1910 p298)
D) "Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." (The Watchtower Oct.1 1967 p587)
E) Channel to understanding the Bible...All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "geatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave." (The Watchtower Oct. 1 1994 p8)
If these words don't have cult written all over them, I don't know what would.
talk about the pot calling the kettle black witnesses see things only one way "their" way and if you don't your a sinner. why is it when you critizize other faiths it's alright but when someone critizizes the watchtower they are sinners?get with it anyone who critizizes another persons beliefs is no better then the people he is belittling. can't we all just get along, live and let live? I believe we are all members of Christs universal church no matter how we are baptised or how we worship god through him. Anyone who believes that his church or organization is the only one preaching the truth has blinders on, And needs to take them off before he runs into a wall. We all speak a different launguage but the words have the same meaning and god understands us. What makes anyone think that because someone worships god in a different way for example Catholic or prebyterian that he listens to either of them any less. And before any witnesses start getting their fingers limbered up to come back with a sarcastic reply this posting is not aimed at you but everyone. Stop saying my faith is better then yours, that is like saying my dad can beat up your dad. I am assuming we're adults here let's act like it okay?
What is the Watchtowers position on the last posters topic?
"So where is true religion to be found? In all humility and honesty, we must say that Jehovah's Witnesses form an international community walking this 'narrow and cramped road.' (The Watchtower Dec. 1, 1991 p8)
to 30th Jan 2003 08:12.37
Sorry but you are only deceiving yourself if you believe in what you have written.
The Bible clearly states many times that you must only worship Jehovah.
It also clearly states that Jehovah is a jealous God.
I've never seen it written in any postings that Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves better than everyone else, this is other peoples intepretation or perception.
There are 1000's of gods and the bible clearly also tells us that when Jehovah decides to do away with Satan for good that he will not know you if you didn't acknowledge him beforehand. The bible also clearly states that before this occurs that everyone will know who the one and only true God is.
Out of love for fellow human beings we only endeavour to tell people the truth and it really is up to the listener if they wish to listen and learn.
Most of us were all of the same thinking and lack of knowledge as others at some stage and can only feel motivated to tell others of the truth now that we have found it.
The Bible also tells in many instances how to define and find the right religion.
The definition of a cult from English Dictionary: Devotion to a person or thing. (Jehovah's Witnesses worship Jehovah who is Holy Spirit, not a living person or an idol made by man) of course yes there are those who will consider Holy Spirit a thing but this will be on their consciences when Judgement Day comes)
Matthew 7:13 Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; Matthew 7:14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.
Jehovah won't hold it against those who follow his laws, but he will hold those accountable who constantly try to cause discord and disharmony amongst his people also not forgetting those who go to extreme measures in attempting to turn those away from his word and laws.
to 30 jan 2003 16:44:40 Your right I am deluding myself, I honestly thought we all as christians believe that there is only one god and I still do. You call him Jehovah I call him god the father all mighty, but no matter what you call him he is still the father of Jesus christ whom I accept as my lord and savior. And yes you are right he is a jelous god but he is also a kind and forgiving god. You must have misunderstood me when I said we all speak in different launguages and worship diferently. It isn't "how" we worship but "who" we worship, and no matter how we refer to him be it jehovah, yahweh,or simply god he knows it is him that we worship. As for cults where did i ever say "anything" on that subject?
Jehovah is God's name in English and yes his name is spelt a little differently with other languages such as Jehova and Yahweh.
you need to ask yourself whether you like to be addressed by your name and then think about the fact that it would be a very strange world if none of us addressed anyone by their name.
Considering that Jehovah created you and me and everybody else, the least we can all do is address him by his name out of respect.
And you're right you didn't mentioned cult that was in response to a posting previous to yours.
And one other thing I need to point out Jehovah is a forgiving God to those who repent of their sin and acknowledge him.
And one more thing how you worship Jehovah is just as important as who.
Did you know that some years ago Mexico had a law whereby they would not let any churches and religious groups buy and own their own properties? The government "held" such properties. Well, all the churches and religious groups carried on practising their religious beliefs in the same manner, EXCEPT the Jehovah's Witnesses. Yes, the greedy governing body deceitfully decided to get round the situation by saying that they were a "cultural" organisation so that they could buy and own their own properties. By doing this they severely compromised the way in which the brothers and sisters were worshipping Jehovah. For example, amongst other things, they were not allowed to pray or sing at any of the meetings, and they couldn't use their bible on the ministry work (only the watchtower/awake publications). Can you believe that? Just because the GREEDY governing body decided that it was more important to accumulate "worldly" possessions than to worship Jehovah. Meanwhile, all those wicked false religions were being honest and registering as a "religious" group and carrying on worship as usual. Jan,London,UK
Watchtowerology: A movement that specializes in taking approx. 6.5 percent of the scriptures, reworking them with a mixture of 93.5 percent russelism and presenting the results in the Watchtower publications. For those interested in absorbing Watchtowerology fully, they must set aside the Bible and put much study and contemplation in the Societies publications. One must also be willing to accept without questions all teachings whether you agree with them or not. One must follow these teachings even if they change without question regardless of how much brighter the light can or cannot get.
No I didn't but it doesn't surprise me. It's great that Jehovah's people had the wisdom to overcome this stumbling block they were faced with.
Your use of the word "greedy" is inappropriate and I'm quite sure that Jehovah will prove to you one day that their motive was "faith in Jehovah", and not greed as you've chosen to perceive it to be.
and to the above message. You will be judged one day for your blatent lies. Jehovah's Witnesses first and foremost always read the Bible.
To the post 31 Jan - 15.01. Get real! A "stumbling block" is not that the JWs cannot purchase their own property to worship in! A "stumbling block" would be if a specific government forbade them from worshipping at all. All the other religions accepted this "stumbling block" and got on with their worship (without worrying whether they could build up wealth from owning properties). You must be one of the governing body or from the Watchtower org who regularly visit these sites and write words as if from zealous JWs. Get a life!
Thats funny. Jehovah's Witness first and foremost read the Bible. The Bible is given lip service but will always in practise be relegated to a referance book. Something like a catalog. Read the WT publications and check to see if the out of context scripture is in the bible, then back to the WT publications. I see it all the time.
I am curious, many of the posters who are former witnesses refer people to other websights that echo their feelings, I am wondering why active witnesses who post here do not refer to websites that echo their views. I know the watchtower society has a web sight but their must be others. It seems that only one side of the story is being presented and defended here, that of the ex witnesses. I guess that is because there are so many disgruntled webmasters out there, I am not interested in converting but merely would like to examine both sides of the arguement.